Ep 79 | Rebounding From Divorce in Your 30s
In this episode, Priya sits down with Allison Kahler, a former Bain consultant turned divorce coach and host of The D. Tales podcast, to talk about the financial side of divorce that nobody prepares high earners for. They cover why a prenup (or the lack of one) matters more than couples think, why keeping a bank account in your own name does not protect those assets in a divorce, and what to get in order before you ever tell your partner you want out.
Takeaways:
Keeping a bank account in only your name does not protect it in a divorce - courts and mediators look at total assets, not individual account labels.
Every marriage already has a prenup: if you never write your own, your state's default divorce laws become the agreement instead.
Letting your partner "handle the money" is the exact habit that leaves people financially blindsided if the marriage ends.
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Guest Bio:
Allison Kahler is a former Bain & Company partner who spent nearly 20 years in consulting before shifting her focus to executive coaching and divorce support. After going through her own divorce, she launched The D. Tales, a podcast featuring real divorce stories and conversations with divorce professionals, and now helps others navigate the financial and emotional sides of separation.
As an executive coach and leadership advisor, Allison partners with senior leaders across Fortune 1000 companies, startups, and nonprofits on 1:1 coaching, leadership development, team effectiveness, and facilitation.
Guest Links:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/allisonjkahler
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedtalespodcast
Podcast: "The D. Tales with Allison Kahler" is available on all podcast apps, https://linktr.ee/thedtalespodcast
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Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
Transcription
What do you say to people who are navigating divorce and are hyper-focused on d- distribution being insanely equitable financially? Yeah. So I think one of my favorite quotes from the podcast was I had, an attorney mediator on and she said, "Fair is the F-word in divorce," which I think is very funny given the title of this podcast.
Who the am I to tell you what to do with your money? My name is Priya Malani, currently managing millions of hardworking dollars. Enough foreplay. Let's talk money. Welcome to the F Word: Smart Money. No Rules
Hey, guys. Welcome back. My name is Priya, and this is The F Word, a podcast for high earners who wanna master their money in their 30s. Today, I'm diving into a topic that I honestly don't cover very often with someone who actually shares the lived experience with me. She's taken that experience, however, and channeled it into helping others in a more formalized capacity.
Allison Kayler is a former Bain consultant turned executive coach, and is now keen on helping those navigating divorce. She's launched a podcast that's already making waves. It's called The Tales, T-A-L-E-S, featuring real divorce stories and grounded conversations with divorce-related experts. Today we're talking about why divorce doesn't mean failure, the financial mistakes people make before and during divorce, and how to protect yourself if you ever find yourself navigating one.
We'll learn Allison's number one divorce mantra, and I'm confident you'll leave with some solid takeaways and clear next steps no matter where you are in your journey. Before we jump in, I want to acknowledge one thing: divorce becomes significantly more complex when children are involved. While we will touch on a few resources today, the realities of co-parenting, custody, and helping children navigate divorce deserve a totally dedicated conversation with someone who really specializes in that type of work, so that is for a future episode.
Today we're gonna focus primarily on the financial side of the equation. And with that, Allison, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me, Priya. Thrilled to be here. Allison, so happy to have you. So you are a former partner at a very prestigious consulting firm, Bain, as I mentioned. I gotta ask you after navigating divorce, which is tumultuous, no matter how amicable it might be, what made you decide you're gonna build something on the professional side specifically around divorce rather than just moving the fuck on?
Why Allison Kayler Built a Business Around Her Own Divorce
I think it's a great question, and honestly something I resisted for a really long time. The first time I thought about doing something in this space was when I was COVID nomading around the country in 2021, and the idea literally came to me in a dream in the middle of the night. And that was 2021, and I launched the podcast at the start of this year, so it was five years of resisting it.
But I had a moment about two years ago where I just felt like I had to try to do something in this space to help, because I would always wonder, looking back if I, if I didn't try. And so this honestly feels like my life's purpose, is to help others in this space after having lived it myself. And leaving behind an almost 20-year career in consulting was not a decision I took lightly, but I will say I feel like I am in exactly the right place right now doing the work I'm supposed to be doing.
Why Getting a Prenup Doesn't Mean You're Planning to Fail
It's incredible. Very, very important work. Before we jump into all things divorce, I want to start before marriage even. I'm on a big mission to rebrand prenups. And I'm curious, if you were speaking to a couple with like no meaningful assets at, like when they're going into their r- marriage, what would you want them to understand about prenups?
Yeah. So it's interesting that you bring this up because today's episode that just came out, on The Details is actually on the topic of prenups and something that's less well-known, postnups. So I am actually learning a lot about this space, but I think as a resident data nerd, I'll share an interesting stat with you.
But today, 47% of engaged or marrying Gen Z or Millennial couples get a prenup. And that statistic was something closer to, like, 5% several years ago. And so it totally shocked me when my guest shared that information with me because I thought prenups were way less common. But I think the reality of it is, marriage rates are declining, divorce rates are also declining, but people are getting married a little bit older.
And so while they may not have significant assets, I think people are really realizing the value of a prenup and just the importance of having a conversation about money before they enter, what can be, and hopefully for many is, a lifelong partnership. And so I think it's really important to be having these conversations.
It doesn't mean planning for failure, it's just the right conversations you should be having before you enter that type of partnership Hmm. And I've often heard it, said that even if you don't write your own prenup, every marriage has a prenup. Mm-hmm. Can you say, speak a little bit to that? Yeah.
I mean, I'll just share from my own personal experience. I did not have a prenup going into my marriage, and I think, you know, something that I regret a little bit was not having some of those early money conversations and, you know, thinking, oh, with optimism and hope, that we'll figure it out, and we're both smart people, we're both responsible with money, we'll figure it out.
But I really wish I would've had some of those conversations earlier on about what does money mean to each of us, you know, what are our goals around earning, how do we think about spending money, how do we think about investing? And I think there's a lot of people that might be hesitant to bring these things up for fear of what it might mean for the future of the relationship or for it being kind of unromantic or something, or just frankly being a little bit naive and not knowing enough about these things, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't learn about them.
So yeah, I think there are definitely things I've learned through, through my own experience by not having one that will certainly change my perspective if I were to get married again in the future. Yeah. Well said. You talk about how it forces these conversations around money, which I always remind people, money ties back to your values.
Yeah. Yeah. And having these conversations is actually you and your partner talking about important values and making sure you're aligned there. So I love the fact that you're highlighting how a prenup can, essentially, I don't wanna say force, but it, it, it encourages conversations that ultimately better serve the long-term, the longevity of the relationship.
And then the fact that, like, if you don't write one on your own, the state wrote it for you. Yeah. Yeah, and I think there are a lot of misconceptions. There are state-by-state rules around how divorce works and how property division works, the type of divorce that you choose. So whether you work with attorneys or through mediation or through the collaborative divorce process, there are multiple ways that the division of assets can come to be.
There's not just one right set of rules. And so I think that's something we can talk about, too, is, you know, how does it work once you do decide to get divorced? But having that sort of pre-agreed upfront, and also knowing that you're allowed to change that over time. Like, you can renegotiate a prenup, and this concept that I had never heard of, of a postnuptial agreement, is something that you can put in place after you get married, whether you had a prenup or not.
And so the idea isn't using a postnup as a reason for divorce, but saying, "Hey, the terms of our marital agreement, or how we think about our relationship, or whether one spouse is working and one spouse isn't, or how we choose to spend our money," that we can pre-agree those things to feel more comfortable that if we ever did get to a divorce, that we're comfortable with how that's going to, to go down versus having someone else decide for you, like you said.
Yeah, I appreciate you highlighting that. A lot of people don't realize that postnuptial agreements are essentially the, the same idea except it's after your nuptials. So- Yeah ... the fact that you can introduce the idea... Like, let's say you were not for prenups 'cause you thought they were unromantic, but now you've listened to all these amazing podcasts-
And you've learned more and you realize that you want to protect yourself and your partner, right? Because at the end of the day- Yeah ... that's what this agreement is. It's protecting you, but protecting them as well. And if you love them, you wanna show that you protect them, no matter how things turn out.
So the idea of a postnuptial agreement, if people are interested, definitely talking to a lawyer. You could still initiate that conversation, get a free consult, learn more. Okay, so let's say you've skipped the prenup. Has hearing all of these divorce stories on your podcast, the details, has it changed the way you think about couples merging finances during marriage?
Should Couples Merge Their Finances During Marriage?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very personal decision, and every couple has to decide what makes the most sense for them. I think the, the biggest takeaway, and it's very clear if people have read or heard about the book that sort of captured the cultural zeitgeist, but Bell Burden's book, Strangers, it details a woman's divorce story and, sort of what she was left with.
And one of the takeaways from that book was she had no understanding of the family finances. She came from a pretty wealthy background. Her husband was in- worked at a hedge fund, and so they were very well-to-do. But she sort of abdicated, you know, responsibility or, you know, any sort of knowledge of their finances and just let him take care of that.
So I think the choice of whether you decide to merge your finances or keep separate accounts is almost a little bit of a moot point, and the more important piece is understanding, what your finances are. And that's both how much money is coming in, how it's being used, but also if there are debts that people are bringing into the marriage and, you know, things that you're just not aware of.
Those things, I think, can really scar people on the other side of divorce. And so I think the key thing, whether you merge things into joint accounts or keep things separate, that's actually not something that when you go to divide assets post-divorce, it's, it's not like, "Oh, I keep my checking account, and you keep yours," or, "I keep my...
It's in my name." Like, that's not actually how the division of assets works. So it's not something to say, "Oh, we didn't have a prenup, but we kept separate accounts." That will not be something that leads to the division of assets, right? So if you don't have a agreement in place, the fact of assets being in one account or separate doesn't really factor in there.
So I think the big thing is really having visibility and transparency into your financial status. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna repeat that 'cause I think that is a common misconception, that if you get into a marriage and you keep an individual checking account in your name, should the marriage end in divorce, those assets are not necessarily yours because, just because they sat in an asset of your name only.
Exactly. And I, again, I think it comes back to the type of divorce process that you choose. So if you go through mediation, you know, you- there is the law that says how things should go in your state. But if you choose mediation, you don't necessarily have to follow that law to the letter of the law. You can agree as a couple how you want to divide things.
Similarly, if you have two lawyers that are working together, you can have some say around negotiating a settlement before anything would ever get to court. Something that sort of shocked me from a conversation that I had with a California attorney mediator was that 99% of cases settle outside of court.
So it's very rare that divorces actually make their way in front of a judge and the judge decides this is how the assets are going to be split. This is where lawyers spend a lot of their time, is deciding how are we gonna di- divvy things up. So there is a law, they use that, but you, ultimately end up negotiating.
And just saying, "Oh, these accounts are in my name," or, "These are accounts are in his name," is not the way that things get divided. Perfect. Thank you. That was so, so helpful. So let's continue to speak to that person who has relied on their partner to manage the family finances. What do they need to know before they convince themselves that they're stuck because they have relied on their partner to manage the family finances, they don't think they can do it on their own?
What to Do If Your Partner Handles All the Money
What do you say to that person? Yeah. So I would say, you know, first and foremost, whether you're contemplating a divorce or not, this is something that's useful to have as a discussion in your marriage anyway. I've heard of some couples thinking about it as like, a finance date night, where they'll sit down and just be like, you know, if couples are, you know, in debt and they're trying to figure out how to come out of debt, like, how can they put a Friday date night at home where they block an hour and they just talk about their finances.
So this doesn't always have to be in the context of divorce, but bringing up to your partner, "Hey, I realize that you've been taking the brunt of managing our finances. I'd like to just learn more, and if we could talk about that and open a conversation about it." It's hard to start, and what I would say is just take it in bite-sized pieces and start small.
You're not going to understand everything all at once in one conversation. But just starting to make that a reality of the types of conversations you have with your partner, I think, can be really healthy in a marriage, regardless of whether you're headed for a divorce. I think if there are problems in the marriage and you start to bring this up, it may perk up the ears of the, of your spouse, and I think that's very situation-dependent based on kind of the relationship dynamics that you have there.
And so, you know, I think it helpful to get experts that can consult you on your own specific situation. But what I would say is starting off with even just getting a list of what you think the different accounts are, if you don't know what all of the dollars are that are in there, but sort of like, "I think my partner has a 401(k).
I have one through work. I know we have this joint checking account. I know I have this, you know, leftover money from my college fund that my parents saved for me." But just trying to get a little bit of a list of what all of those assets are are helpful. It's the first thing that a lawyer is going to ask you about if you do approach them to say that you're interested in a divorce.
And so doing some of that data-gathering ahead of time can be really helpful. The other thing I would say is, don't try to white-knuckle this alone. I think there are so many resources and people that are out there to help with this, that I frankly didn't even know existed when I was going through my own divorce.
Two of those that I would highlight, one is a CDFA, that's a certified divorce financial analyst, and they are specifically certified on not just, you know- How to be a good financial advisor or financial planner, but specifically how to navigate the divorce process, and what are different considerations for that.
And the second is a forensic accountant. And so I have a, a friend who went through a divorce. She and her ex-husband, co-owned a business together. And so as they were thinking about splitting the business up, there are a lot of details around something like that and how they think about splitting up a business.
Or if one person's gonna keep the business and the other person isn't, how do you value what that business is worth in a divorce agreement? And so I think a forensic accountant can also come in handy when you have, an ex who might have accounts that you're not really sure of or what exists, and you don't know what the values are associated with that.
Those can be really helpful in determining what are the total assets at play in a divorce situation. So all that to say, I think it really depends on what your situation is. But everyone should be having the money conversation regardless of the marital status. But yeah, different considerations come in play once divorce is on the table.
That was one thing that stuck out to me as we had chatted before, recording today, and this is just a perfect example of why you cannot abdicate. Like, even if you don't care and you don't really feel like you're good at finances, it's really, really important that you stay involved and understand and ask questions.
And if you need to bring in a third party, you do that. You've given a lot of really helpful resources. That was awesome, Allison. Thank you.
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How to Get Your Financial Documents in Order Before You File
Yeah. Another thing that, people shared with me that I learned through the podcast actually is getting a credit report. So there are the three different credit agencies. That's a great place to start if you're unsure, is just to pull a credit report, 'cause it can give you a lot of baseline information before you start that individual data-gathering experience on your own.
So that's kind of a first place a lot of people recommend. But the last thing I'd say on the kind of different resources is divorces can be very expensive, and I think a lot of people, including me, were very afraid about how much money they would have to spend on a lawyer. The lawyer's fees can really rack up if you don't have your ducks in a row.
And so finding someone who can help you, whether that is a CDFA or whether that's a certified divorce coach, somebody who knows how to take you through the process can be really helpful so you're doing all of that data gathering and pulling together all the information before you meet with an attorney.
Otherwise, those lawyer fees can rack up very quickly while you're just doing that basic information-gathering. Right. And your earlier point being, like, pulling a credit report can give you an excellent head start. Exactly. The other day we talked about the statistic that women initiate 70%, roughly 70% of divorces.
What Financial Steps Should You Take Before Filing for Divorce?
And I know, like, the way data comes in and the way these studies are done, you know. But, like- 70%, that's a huge ass number. Yeah. Okay, regardless of who's initiating, though, what are some of the financial preparations? We've talked about, you know, pulling credit report, et cetera, but what are other qualitative things that someone should do before pulling the trigger on a divorce?
So I think the first thing I would say is I just want to normalize for people thinking about a divorce how common it is. So if you're listening to this episode and you haven't yet decided on it, but you're like, "My marriage is kind of in a rough patch. I, I'm not really sure if we're headed this way or not," I just want to normalize that.
It's something I'm really passionate about in this space. There are about 1.3 to 1.7 million people that get divorced every year, but there's another 6 to 15 million people that are thinking about it at any given time. Just, like, let that number sink in. That is based on the statistic that 25% of married individuals aged 25 to 50 have thought about divorce in the last six months, which is just a crazy statistic, and that stays pretty consistent through the first 15 years of a marriage.
And so that means at some point, you or your partner has probably thought about divorce. And so I just want to normalize that. It doesn't mean that you are destined to get divorced. I know it's a large percentage of marriages that do end up that way, but just thinking about it doesn't mean that you're destined for it.
And I actually think actually having the ability to work through some of the issues, finances being a really big one of them, may help you end up in that place of staying married. Because I have interviewed over 100 people as part of my own research or through the podcast now to talk about their divorce experiences, and I have yet to meet one person who've said that they wanted to get divorced, right?
It is not something that people choose lightly. It is an incredibly hard experience, and nobody gets married thinking their marriage is gonna end in divorce, right? But I just want to normalize that contemplating it is very normal. The second thing is that I think the number is 37% of people that are thinking about divorce have thought about it for over two years And so it is a process that people are really wrestling with over time.
And so it is rarely a snap judgment decision. And so when finances are involved, there's generally some time to say, "Okay, if I might be heading this way, what are the things that I can do to either work on the financial aspects of my marriage," like that concept we mentioned earlier of a postnuptial agreement, or how can I just start to have some of those money conversations if that's one of the drivers of the marital dissatisfaction?
Or if you think things are headed in the divorce direction, you know, if that contemplation period takes some time, then you can sort of get your ducks in a row, gather some of that information so that when you are prepared to file, you have the information at your fingertips, right? It's... A number of divorce professionals would v- would advise to be prepared before you tell your ex that you want a divorce.
Because if things do get contentious, that's when people can start to lock down access to things, change passwords, and so you wanna try and get access to all that information before you tell your partner that you're ready to file or that you want the divorce. Yeah. You pull tax returns. You can take- Exactly
Screenshots of bank accounts, like you mentioned, the credit report. Better to have... I was gonna... I was thinking timestamps, date stamps on as much of that. So if you're taking it on your computer screen, make sure you have sort of the date and time in your screenshots. This is assuming that you don't have easy access e- or don't feel like they'll give you access once you mention that that's, you know, the route you'd like to take.
Why Thinking About Divorce Doesn't Mean You're Alone
Wow, those are insane stats, though. Like, how many people are thinking about it Yeah, it is something I'm really passionate about bringing to the surface, one, because from my consulting background, I'm a huge data nerd, and I like to bring that to bear any time that I can. But the second is just really to normalize something that feels very isolating, very lonely, very shameful.
You know, most people can spout the statistic that, you know, 50% of marriages end in divorce. The number is somewhere between 40 to 50%, depending on how you cut the data. But even though people know that, you never enter a marriage thinking you're gonna be part of that statistic. And so when it comes to you and you start thinking about it, you think, "There's something horribly wrong with me.
You know, how could this be happening to me?" And, you know, "I'm so alone. This is, you know, this isn't something that other people are going through." And you just might be going through the process at a different point in time than the people in your life. So I, I knew my parents' friends that were going through a divorce, but when I was going through divorce at 33, I didn't know anybody my age that was going through it, and so I felt so alone.
And so part of why the details exist and the podcast shares real divorce stories is because we don't feel less alone by hearing statistics. We feel less alone by connecting with individuals and hearing stories of people that look like us, right? So, you know, I could have heard when I was 33 going a divorce that, you know, there's 1.3 to 1.7 million people that are also getting divorced.
That didn't make me feel better. What would make me feel better is connecting with someone over a glass of wine or a cup of coffee that's saying, "This is what I went through, and you're not alone, and, like, there's nothing wrong with you." That can be hard to find, but that's also the work you're doing is growing this, this, community, beyond the podcast so that people can find support.
Maybe they don't have it directly in their neighborhood or their network, and, there are communities out there that, that you can get support from. It can be a very isolating thing. We've talked a lot about the person that is maybe less financially fluent, maybe not the breadwinner. So let's now talk about the flip side, the person who is earning most of the household income.
What the Higher-Earning Spouse Loses in Divorce
There's sort of this assumption out there that they kind of end up okay. They have the career, they have the income. But in a divorce, whether or not they're initiating it, they lose as well. What do they lose? Tell us. Well, you know, I think what's really interesting is w- I had a, a certified divorce financial analyst on the podcast a couple weeks ago, and she was saying, you know, whether you are a high-earning household or a low-earning household, the reality is when you split up, you are splitting cash flow.
And so if you previously had two people contributing to one shared- House or apartment, et cetera, you're now having two individuals living in two separate places, right? And so the incomes between the two parties stay the same, but the costs on the other side of the divorce go up, just given that you are eliminating the shared expenses that you had before, and you're splitting those things up.
And so I think there's a reality for whether you are the breadwinner or not the breadwinner, or whether you are a high-income household or a lower-income household, that the, the cash flow just changes afterwards. And so it obviously will depend on whether spousal support is involved, or whether there is child support payments that are going on, but there are a lot of considerations that come into play.
And, you know, I know many friends that are unfortunately going through this right now too, and just the reality is, you have a very different financial future post-divorce. What do you say to people who are navigating divorce and are hyper-focused on d- distribution being insanely equitable- ... financially?
Why 'Fair' Isn't the Right Goal in a Divorce Settlement
Yeah, so I think one of my favorite quotes from the podcast was, I had, an attorney mediator on, and she said, "Fair is the F word in divorce," which I think is very funny given the title of this podcast. But this concept that, you know, people want what's fair, right? And, beyond that, depending on the reason for divorce, you know, I had an- another guest come on that talks about the desire for the court system to give justice.
So if somebody feels like they were wronged, and that's what led to the divorce settlement, they're looking for money to be some way of sort of recouping for that. And that's just... Honestly, that's not the way the court system sees it, it's not the way that a judge sees it, and it's, it's unlikely that that will be paid out.
And so I think there is a very big piece of this that is recalibrating your expectations through the divorce process on what is fair. And coming back to our earlier conversation around values, trying to focus there rather than digging your feet in the ground around a specific dollar amount or around a specific asset that you're fighting for, that is not the key to healing.
I can tell you, eight years on the other side of divorce, and having a pretty amicable divorce process and not a very messy one from a financial side of things, the healing doesn't come through money And it's gonna feel unfulfilling to people, but, the hard work of healing is a, is a much, broader, longer emotional journey that is separate from the finances.
Yeah, and the more that you get hung up on the dollar for dollar division, the longer you keep yourself trapped in potentially a toxic and unhealthy situation. If it costs you your peace, it's too expensive. And so there are other ways that you will get value besides dollar for dollar. Like, if there's any part of the show I could highlight, it would be this moment.
I, I really want people to zoom out and remember that they are moving on to a new chapter, remember that they are capable of rebuilding. Their security is not going to hinge on getting the exact amount, fair division, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, you know, each of us has our own default mode, and something that I heard on a separate platform is this concept of the opposite is the medicine.
And so some of us will have a bias towards action, and, "I just wanna get it done. I just want it to be done as fast as possible. Rush, rush, rush." And those people could probably benefit from taking a beat, slowing down, and just letting the process play out a little bit versus, like, "This has to be done by a certain date.
It needs to be done." And other people who are really wanting a specific outcome, being really stubborn, digging their feet in the ground, it's like, okay, maybe it's time to release some of that. I have a really big belief that divorce is a catalyst for personal and oftentimes professional transformation, and that building the self-awareness and understanding, like, what are our default patterns?
Where do we go under stress? And just acknowledging that with self-compassion, and then saying, "Hey, let me soften into that a little bit," versus just kind of continuing to dig into what my default mode is. Mm. Wish I had you to tell me that. Yeah. Looking back, what is one financial div- decision that you wish you made b- before your divorce that you think would've made the process easier?
What Allison Would Have Done Differently Before Her Divorce
My divorce process was pretty easy and straightforward. And I feel really grateful that my ex-husband and I went through it in a way that was very values-aligned. So rather than having our lawyers kind of beat each other up, we did it all ourselves. We basically came to an agreement ourselves and just asked the lawyers to draft it up on a paperwork.
I literally built a spreadsheet and said, "This is what I think all of our stuff is. Is this right? Here's my first pass on how we might divide stuff." He came back and had a different view, and we ultimately came to an agreement that we could both live with. But we entered that not in fighting over who got what, but a sen- a, a set of principles that we wanted to use to guide that.
And so, you know, I think as, as far as how the actual division of assets went and how we went about it, I feel pretty proud of how we jointly went through that process. You know, I think my lessons learned or what I would've done differently ahead of time are just... You know, not even specific to the divorce process, but just my own financial fluency.
Like, I grew up with parents who were very committed to helping my sister and I learn about finances and spending money responsibly and saving, but I think I hesitated to invest for the first several years of my, you know, working years. I had too much money sitting in cash, to be honest. I invested in my 401(k) and sort of maxed that out, but, my ex-husband is a financial advisor, and really, when we started our relationship and started merging our finances, I think he encouraged us to invest more, and so we had some shared accounts and things like that.
So if I had anything to do again, it's more on my personal front, which is I had a few years of compound interest that I lost by just having money sitting in cash. And so I think the work, Priya, that you do, with all of your clients is so important in those early income years because it just compounds over time.
So yeah. It, it sounds like you guys navigated it about as maturely as humanly possible, which if only all could follow in that. It is an incredibly emotional process, and even though it was pretty straightforward, it was not easy. It definitely came with emotions. And I'll share one funny story. Not... I know not everybody can be in this, you know, financial position, but one of the assets that we had to split was, a wine collection.
And so, I mean, it wasn't like we had, you know, separate wine storage, but we had joined some wine clubs, and we had, you know, some really nice bottles of wine that we had accumulated over the course of our marriage. And after we had sort of come to the agreement on everything else that we were splitting, one night we cracked open a bottle of the wine that we had, 'cause we were still living under the same roof, and we did an alcohol draft.
And we said, "You pick one, I pick one. You pick one, I pick one." And so, you know, not everybody has, you know, that level of amicability. I don't know if that's a word, but, you know, not everybody can sit down and do that in their divorce process. But I think, you know, if... I, I, I don't give any advice because I am not, I'm not a certified divorce financial analyst.
I'm not a lawyer. So I'm just playing back the things I've learned through these interviews and the podcast episodes that I've, I've had so far. But, you know, if there's one piece of advice that I could give to people is sort of start from that place of principles and values, rather than fighting over what your definition of fair is, and you will probably end up in a much better spot.
How Contentious Do Most Divorces Actually Get?
Of the divorces that go through, do you know how many are contentious versus work well for mediation? I know you mentioned earlier about 2% settle in court. So it... Are most couples just sitting down and getting to split it on a spreadsheet and d- divvy up the wine collection? I mean, it's a really good question.
I don't have a statistic on that one yet. Yeah. Maybe it's something that I can go hunt down in the next wave of research here. But, you know, I think it's, it's obviously a spectrum or a scale rather than amicable or contentious. I think there are different parts that can get contentious for different couples.
And I think ultimately it comes down to the entire divorce proceeding, what's important to you, right? And a lot of this ends up being negotiation strategy, and so I think that's what a ti- a lot of times the lawyers will do, and where things can frankly get kind of expensive or, or difficult when lawyers get involved is trying to play things off of each other.
And so I think before you go into any sort of process, whether that's mediation or negotiations with lawyers, understanding what's important to you, and that's around, you know, if you do have kids, like, what is the, you know, custody agreement? If you own a shared home, you know, in terms of do you want the home or not, and coming up with a little bit of your negotiation strategy.
And what I learned in my MBA courses, you know, on negotiation is, like, you negotiate the entire agreement. You can't pick and choose individual, like, cherry-pieced things, right? So having a sense of what's important to you is, is really important before you go into that. I think things that start out amicable can get contentious.
I think once they're contentious it's pretty hard to flip back the other way. Yeah, and I'll just share this nugget from my personal experience, which is that for me, one of the things I knew was speed was important. And so there were some trade-offs and some things that I decided to forego, that maybe I would have hinged my negotiation on if speed wasn't so important to me.
Yeah. So as an example, that was one thing that I valued and, and it, and, and when we were able to come to terms, we would come, come- Yeah ... fairly, you know, like my, my former partner understood that, and I respected what, what was important to him. This has been amazing. Give us your incredibly wise divorce mantra.
Allison's Number One Divorce Mantra
So I would say trust yourself faster. That's easy to say out loud. It's something that it will take as much time as it takes, but the answer is not out there. The answer is inside of you as to whether you're going to get divorced, how you want to go through it, and the only agreement that's the right agreement when you get divorced is the one that you can live with.
And so for me, it took two to three years of contemplation to get to that final decision. A lot of that was not trusting myself. But in reflecting back on my own divorce experience, which I do on the podcast, I have a series of episodes I call Dear Diary, where I actually go back and read through my journal entries from my divorce process and reflect back on them.
I don't think I could have necessarily rushed the process or did a- did anything different. I think it took me the time that it took, but I wish I would've had the practices That would allow me to listen to that inner voice, to trust that inner voice, and to sort of get to that answer for myself a little bit quicker.
But it will take the time that it takes for you, and don't rush the process. So well said, and same, girl. Same. Before I let you go, we have a tradition. We always close the show with a segment called Best Bite. I'm a huge foodie. I would love- ... to know what is something that you had lately that totally blew your mind?
Best Bite: Allison's Favorite Recent Food Find
I want a recommendation for where I need to go. Yeah, so you'll have to get on a plane and go to Portugal. I was just there for work last week for some of the coaching and leadership development work that I do. But I had a pastel de nata, which is a very traditional Portuguese custard tart they're very well known for.
There are probably some better than others, but it's a delicious Portuguese delight, and I like that better than salted cod, so I was actually in Portugal last December and- Yeah ... also second pastel de na- del nata. Do you, did you have it in a specific place that you could recommend, or you're- Oh ... just like anywhere it's so good?
I mean, honestly, when I checked in the hotel we were at, they brought a little, like, welcome tray to my room, so I ate four on the first night that I was there, so I had them at a few different places, but I, I will say I didn't have a bad one, so yeah. Amazing. That's delicious. That sounds awesome. And I also second that recommendation.
Where to Follow Allison Kayler
Finally, where can people follow you? We'll drop links to the details obviously, but give us your handles. Where are you active so we can stay in touch with your journey? Yeah, so the podcast is The Details with Allison Kayler, and you can get that anywhere you get your podcasts. You can follow me @allisonjkayler on Instagram and TikTok, and then you can follow the podcast @thedetailspodcast on Instagram.
Allison, thank you so much for joining me. Divorce is one of those topics that people don't like to talk about until they're forced to. Really appreciate the work you're doing to make people feel less alone and better informed when they find themselves navigating it. Thank you again. Thanks for having me, Priya.
Absolutely. To those listening, whether you're married, single, divorced, or somewhere in between, I hope this conversation reminded you that understanding your finances isn't about preparing for the worst, it's about creating options for yourself no matter what life throws your way. As always, if you have a sec to leave us a review, that's the best way to support the show, and it's free.
Please like, subscribe, or follow us wherever you're listening so you don't miss out on future episodes. All right, that's it for today. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to The F Word with Priya Malani. If you like what you heard, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, and leave us a review while you're at it. We're approval junkies. Don't forget, you can find a ton of great resources, content, courses, and other freebies at stashwealth.com. Now, for the capital S stuff our lawyers want us to say.THE STUFF OUR LAWYERS WANT US TO SAY: Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
