Ep 81 | The Finance Queen of Equity Comp
In this episode, Priya sits down with AJ Ayers, CEO and co-founder of BrooklynFI, to talk about the money shame that persists even after high earners have built real wealth. They dig into the single most expensive mistake people make with equity compensation, why doing nothing with a windfall is actually a strategy, and the exact savings framework AJ uses with clients who have lumpy or unpredictable income. AJ also shares the thesis behind her new book, Creative Money, and the one chapter she fought to include.
Takeaways:
Money shame doesn't disappear once you get rich, or even after 10 years with a financial advisor - the goal isn't to eliminate it, it's to stop letting it freeze you.
The most expensive mistake with equity compensation is doing nothing: waiting to exercise options or sell RSUs almost always costs more in taxes than acting early.
If you experience a cash windfall, slow down and build the framework, because acting fast is what turns sudden money into a mistake.
If your income is lumpy, save 50% of every dollar in a high-yield account for at least 15 months; that's the number that keeps a good year from turning into a surprise tax bill.
Follow Priya Malani:
LinkedIn | Instagram | Youtube | Stash Wealth
Guest Bio:
AJ Ayers is the CEO and co-founder of Brooklyn FI, a national financial advisory firm specializing in equity compensation and tax strategy for tech professionals, founders, and creatives. She co-hosts The Liquidity Event podcast, and her first book, Creative Money: New Financial Rules for Artists, Innovators, and Misfits, is out this fall.
Guest Links:
Podcast: The Liquidity Event
Instagram: @brooklyn_fi and @ajayersnyc
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajayers/
The Stuff Our Lawyers Want Us to Say:
Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
Transcription
Why Do So Many Successful People Feel Shame About Money?
Hey, I'm 39 years old. I've got a million dollars saved. I've been so successful, and it's sitting in a checking account because I'm afraid of making a mistake. I have shame because I feel stupid that I didn't know how this stuff worked, and that, that's my story. You know, I, I come up from a creative background.
You know, I used to be a music journalist and, you know, at, at 27, s- didn't know what a Roth IRA was, and then just felt silly and, and frankly stupid. Who the am I to tell you what to do with your money? My name is Priya Malani, currently managing millions of hardworking dollars. Enough foreplay, let's talk money.
Welcome to the F Word: Smart Money, No Bull.
Hey guys, welcome to The F Word. I'm Priya, and this is the podcast for high-earning 30-somethings who make good money and want more to show for it. Today I'm speaking with a very special guest. She's a fellow founder and financial advisor with a very cool niche. AJ Ayers is the CEO and co-founder of Brooklyn Fi, where she leads a national firm specializing in equity compensation and tax strategy for tech professionals, founders, and creatives.
She co-hosts a podcast aptly named The Liquidity Event, and she's got her first book coming out this fall. It's called Creative Money, and we're gonna talk all about it But first, AJ, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Priya. We've- I'm so pumped ... known about each other for almost a decade, but we just recently connected, and we're already gonna hang out three times, so, so far so good.
Why Did AJ Ayers Start Brooklyn Fi?
Yes, exactly. Like you said, so we've known each other's companies for a very long time, but only recently getting to know each other better, which is so fun. We've got a very exciting reservation coming up in Brooklyn in a couple weeks I am pumped about. You have the insider track. But as we've been getting to know each other, you were sharing with me the basis for your company, which is reflected in the thesis for your book.
It's that money is less about getting rich and more about learning to use your money well, which was born from your personal experience, so I kinda wanna start there. Why did you start your firm? So we started Brooklyn FI because we looked around at our friends in our social circles, my co-founder Shane and I, and we saw, you know, artists, musicians, you know, early employees at tech companies making real money and finding success.
At that point, we were in our mid to late 20s, and there were not any financial advisors or accountants who were really able to serve them, able to speak their language. You know, in the financial services industry, we sort of had this mismatch for young people between advisors who manage portfolios, and young people who have, like your audience, a lot of cash flow, a lot of income, a lot of interesting problems and complex situations, but don't necessarily have the investment portfolio today to invest.
So our thesis was basically, hey, let's invest in these people now. Let's help them solve these really complex tax problems. Let's help them with their equity compensation. Let's help them exercise their stock options. And then eventually, they'll become those clients who have those portfolios to manage.
So that was the thesis back in 2017, and you know, almost 10 years later, we manage almost a billion dollars. I've got 20 employees. I've got 500 clients. So the thesis has been proven right. And in those 10- It worked. It worked. Yay. Or, like, what's the, the Star Wars, like, pod racing meme? It's like, "It's working."
Shane and I have sent that meme back and forth many times. Also it was hard, right? Also a lot of hard work, and, and periods of growth and periods of, you know, stalled growth and, and things like that, and a wild run in the stock market. But yeah, the, the thesis is, you know, advice should be accessible to the people who need it.
And trying- Mm ... to match the right business model with the right customer base, you know, that's kind of the problem that we're still trying to solve. I don't think we've perfected it. But you know, when clients find us and they land on our website, they usually go, "Oh, I've been looking for you for a while.
Like, I'm so glad I found you." So that's pretty, that's been pretty cool to build that brand and see pe- The way that we're actually able to connect with the people we set out to help in the first place. Really appreciate that you put the lifestyle first. You focus on what they want to talk about versus what a typical financial advisor wants to talk about, which is really unrelatable.
What Kind of Money Shame Do People Feel Most?
And so that lifestyle first approach is really resonates with us of course, very, very similar. That said, in a related vein, I think something that I'm sure you've encountered, is the resistance to using your money to live well. Usually it comes from some brand of shame, so I know that when you're working with young people, I'd just love to talk a little bit about shame.
Like what kind of money shame do you see the most? How do you help people navigate- That I think money shame comes in so many wonderful flavors, right? Wonderful and terrible flavors. There's the kind that I think I see the most around, hey, I'm... And this, this was my own story, which was like, "Hey, I'm smart in all these ways, and I'm successful in all these ways, but I actually don't understand how money works, or how the stock market works, or how the banking system works."
And it's this, you know, massive gap in knowledge and understanding about how the economy functions around us, the individuals who earn and spend money. So that shame, and I've heard this quite literally hundreds of times in all the potential clients I've talked to, you know, "Hey, I'm 39 years old. I've got a million dollars saved.
I've been so successful, and it's sitting in a checking account because I'm afraid of making a mistake. I have shame because I feel stupid that I didn't know how this stuff worked." And that, that's my story. You know, I, I come up from a creative background. I was a... You can tell, I'm sitting in front of my, m- my husband and my's record collection.
It's mostly his. But my little section is back there. You know, I used to be a music journalist, and, you know, at, at 27, s- didn't know what a Roth IRA was, and then just felt silly and, and frankly stupid just not knowing. And, you know, the way I rectified that was by going way too far in the other direction, you know, going to get my CFP, starting a investment firm and all that.
But like, you know, most people don't need to do that. Most people just need to read a book or two. And you know, that's kind of why I wrote Creative Money, which is, hey, you have the shame, and that's okay, and it's probably not gonna go away after you read this book. It's probably not gonna go away even after you work with an advisor for 10 years, but it's okay.
And I think people, the way that I've seen shame kind of get released and people kind of get unlocked and to start investing or to start saving whatever's blocking them is just to tell them it's okay and to tell them they're not alone. So one of the, and I'm sure you've seen this as an advisor, too, one of the most accidentally effective behavioral tools that we have as advisors is to say, "Oh, you're not alone.
Don't worry. Everyone's got, everyone's got money in their checking account. Don't worry, everyone's got money that's not invested sitting in their 401(k). You know, don't worry, everyone's got credit card debt. Don't worry, no one's buying houses." And you just see, like, this relief come over them because they're not alone, and that's, that's freeing in its own way.
What Books Actually Help People Understand Money?
I appreciate that you brought up, most people just need to kind of read a book or two, but even still it doesn't go away overnight, the, the money guilt, the money shame, the feeling of stupidity, the feeling like everybody else got the memo and somehow you didn't. I was gonna ask what resource you point people to, or if there was a...
Aside from your book, which is probably where everyone's should, needs to go now. But before in the early days, was there a book or was there some sort of tool or resource that you would point people towards? Yeah. You know, I think my, my own reading journey, 'cause that's the medium I love to consume, is I love to read.
So, you know, when I first was, sat myself down and was like, "Hey, you need to learn about this stuff," I became really interested in the financial independence, early retirement, or the FIRE movement. I would say there was really two books. One was The Simple Path to Wealth, by J.L. Collins, which is a really simple look at the stock market.
So for someone who, you know, hears the word stock market, and hears stocks and bonds, and hears price to earnings ratios and just, you know, your eyes cross, his, the way he tells a story of a lifetime of investing makes, breaks it down in a way that unlocks the concept for me, and then allowed me to go deeper and now w- learn all what the terminology means.
But the way he talks about investing and how to unlock that as a tool is fantastic. The other book is Your Money or Your Life by Vicki Robin. She talks, and, and this is sort of the, the theme of today's episode, and I've learned so much from her book, and her book was, was so impactful on my own life of like, hey, maybe you don't need that much money.
If you start with what makes you happy and then build around that, then you can start to unlock, you know, riches and wealth or whatever that means to you. And so yeah, just those, those two books. There's another one by a financial advisor named Nick Murray called Simple Wealth, Inevitable Wealth, which I actually love.
It's like I don't usually recommend it to people because it's a little preachy, 'cause like the thesis is like, "You should hire a financial advisor," which I agree with, but like can feel a little like heavy-handed if that's someone's first investing book. But the way he talks about the market, like The Simple Path to Wealth, is just, it's so clear-headed and just it clicks for a lot of people.
What's the Most Expensive Mistake People Make With Equity Compensation?
That's great. So helpful to... Because there are books out there that do move away from the jargon and yes, and bring some simplicity and some understanding there. That's, that's really, really helpful. Okay. Switching gears, your firm specializes in equity compensation, RSUs, options, IPO, windfalls, that kind of thing.
I'm curious, what is the single most expensive mistake that you see people make with their equity? The single most expensive mistake, which is kind of universal, is do- is doing nothing and waiting. It's this paralysis, and there's, there's many opportunities in equity to do nothing, right? And so that's sort of like a
It's a little bit of a cop-out answer because it spans everything. You know, when you get hired at a company that's still private, maybe you'll get a grant of stock options. A lot of times in the modern world, at that moment of hire or, you know, 30 days after you've gotten your grant, you often have an opportunity to early exercise your options, which means pay usually a very low price, sometimes just a couple of cents for each share.
It's a very low cost to entry, and the clients that we work with that, you know, make 10 million, 20, $30 million overnight when the company goes public many years later, those are the people that early exercised. That's not available to everyone, but that is a massive opportunity cost to waiting and doing nothing because the longer you wait to purchase those shares, the, the more expensive they are, the more expensive your tax bill's gonna be.
And kinda similarly, we see this, you know, this, this idea of like waiting being very expensive. You know, if you're at a public company and you have RSUs, restricted stock units, you receive those. They're taxed as, as regular income. They show up on your paycheck. So you're paying, if you live in New York City and you make $300,000, you could be paying almost 50%, on those shares.
If you do nothing and you don't sell them or sell some of them, a year later if the stock price drops, you've paid tax at a higher price and then they're gonna end up selling at a lower price. And that's just, that's a, a very expensive movement that frankly is, is totally out of your control, right?
You as an individual, maybe unless you're the CEO, you have very, very little impact on the actual stock price of a publicly traded company. We could do a, a six-hour episode on all the other things, but I think just this idea of waiting and doing nothing. So if you're listening and you have stock options and your company's maybe thinking about going public, now is the time to get help because the sooner you make decisions, the better outcomes you're gonna have in the future.
Great. Yeah, love that. Get help, learn- Yep ... so that you understand your options and then can make an informed decision. Like, closing your eyes and pretending it'll go away Yeah. And you know, I'm, I'm very passionate about stock options. Like, that's my area of expertise. You know, I, I do lectures for companies.
Like, this is, this is what we do at Brooklyn FI. And I wanted to put something in the book about it, but it's, you know, it's very jargony. It doesn't apply to everyone. Not everyone has stock options. But it was really important to me to put a whole chapter about equity in the book, even if it didn't apply to everyone.
And it's sort of like, hey, this is me begging you, if you ever hear anyone in your network talking about stock options, like, read this chapter because there are things you can do early on, that don't cost a lot of money, that aren't gonna have, you know, there's very little negative impact, by just getting help or reading the chapter and learning about them.
What Separates People Who Build Wealth From a Windfall From Those Who Lose It?
Let's say you do learn, you understand your options, you do something, your company goes public, you actually come into a windfall at the IPO, the acquisition, whatever, a big vest maybe. What separates the people who actually build something with that money versus the ones who blow the opportunity? Yeah. It takes a lot of work to stay rich, right?
We're talking about sudden money, we're talking about a windfall. Yeah, the, the people that we work with, mostly that windfall comes from their company going public or being acquired. But it also comes from inheritance or, in very few cases, the lottery, but that, that, you know, what we're talking about are people who do win the lottery, right?
Who are at the right place at the right time, work for the right company, and the public markets, you know, basically say this has value, and maybe something that used to be worth $50,000 is now worth $5 million. And that money is, you know, we, we, we hear this word life-changing thrown around a lot. And so my approach for windfalls is sort of like a, a stop, drop, and roll kind of thing.
Which is you don't have to do anything overnight. And so I always say, like, let's slow down. Like, we're gonna get to this. It's okay if this money sits in cash for six months. It's okay if it sits in cash for a year. But people love action, right? They, they wanna, they, they see the number in the checking account.
So I always start with spend 1% on something awesome. Like, let's just do something great. Let's get that out of the way. So the people that, you know, have great outcomes with windfalls, where it actually does lead to life-changing money, it's because we actually follow an order of operations, right?
We follow a framework. We don't just say like, "Oh, I wanna invest in this and this," and, "Oh, I should probably set some aside for taxes, but I'll worry about that next year. Oh my God, I love this apartment that I just saw on Zillow, and I'm gonna buy my mom, you know, this, this car that she really wanted." The people who slow down and, like, kind of scratch that itch a little bit, then we take some time, and we do, you know, in-depth goal-setting exercises.
I always tell people to figure out their mental health, you know. Get a therapist. Get a lawyer. Like, you gotta assemble your team before you start tackling. And, and the larger, the, the more zeros there are, the more potential it has to make you frankly unhappy. So slowing down, scratching that itch, and then figuring out what to do with it, figuring out what the taxes are so we know how much we can actually spend, save, or invest.
Why Do a Third of People Who Get a Windfall End Up Broke Within Two Years?
Wow, you gave so many amazing ideas in there. I love the 1%. Yep. Just take 1%, blow it guilt-free, scratch that itch because it can... It's almost like the appetizer at the restaurant. It's like eat the appetizer first and then see what you want for the entree. But if you try to order it all at once, you end up...
Well, the stat I came across, which is absolutely terrifying, is that one third of Americans who receive an inheritance or a windfall end up with a negative savings, negative balance within two years of actually that, that meaningful event. That's wild. And it's funny, you know, as advisors, we can, we talk about this stuff in theory all the time, and there's all these rules of thumb and, you know, you never know how you're gonna feel until you actually go through it.
And so- Yeah ... you know, we have the data on hundreds of people who have gone through this and the data that we, anec- the anecdotal data says you need to do something, right? If you don't do something right away, you know, when someone signs up with our firm, they're like, "I have all this money," and if we just said, "Okay, don't do anything", they'd be like, "What, wh- why did I hire you?"
You know, so we, we go through this framework, and that's kind of the way I approach all personal finance is, you know, you, we make up these frameworks, we being like the financial services industry, and they really work, right? Because they, they give you a roadmap and a next step. And without a next step and $5 million in your checking account, you don't know how long that's gonna last you, right?
And, and you're not, if you don't have a compass of what, what the goals and the things that you want to achieve are, you're gonna end up funneling it into things that pop up and are frankly distractions. And so we see that all the time. And, and look, ev- rules of thumb are meant to be bent, not broken.
So I've had people say like, "Well, can I spend 3%?" And I'm like, "Sure, spend 3%." Like, I'm, I'm not your mom, you know? Like, it's a framework. I love that. There are frameworks out there that you can follow, and then the other thing I really loved that you said was about assembling a team. We talk about that, too, but like yeah, wealthy people have teams, and it could include your therapist.
How Does Sudden Wealth Change Relationships?
Yeah, and, and frankly, another thing that we see is, you know, the way that a, a dramat- a large windfall changes relationships. You know, not just romantic relationships, but friendships and family. And frankly, you know, we as financial advisors, we are often the first and sometimes only people that know about this person's newly acquired wealth.
We often find ourselves kind of advising or talking through, like, how are we gonna tell people? When are we gonna tell people? We've got so many stories of, of young people who are in new romantic relationships, and you know, should you tell your partner that your net worth just jumped to $10 million?
Like, maybe you're gonna marry this person, but you've only been dating for three months. So th- so there are all these, like, very interesting quirks of being a young person who comes into that kind of wealth. So you know, please talk to somebody about it. Probably talk to two or three people because it is such an incredible gift, and it truly can be life-changing.
But it's also overwhelming 'cause you don't wanna mess it up, right? You're afraid of making a mistake. That's that shame again, right? You don't wanna repeat the past. You wanna be different. You wanna be better than the people who came before you. You wanna use that money to not only make you happy, but potentially make the world a better place.
So it's, it's the, the pressure of this once in a lifetime opportunity. Okay, you also just gave me a really, really good idea for a reality TV show. Oh, tell me. It's like a dating show, but like in the tech world where people are becoming millionaires overnight and, like, how that impacts them, their relationship.
I think that would be very, very fascinating to watch. Oh, yeah. For, for years, I've wanted to throw a single, like a mixer with, like, our clients and, like, match people, like, with their tax year. It's like, "Oh, I have a huge capital gain. Like, we need to get married by the end of the year because you have, like, a low income year 'cause you're, you're taking time off or whatever.
And so, like, you could get married, and then you could save hundreds of thousands of dollars on taxes. That one hasn't made it out of the, out of the Google Doc yet. Oh, so fun. It takes it to a next level 'cause we also have done stuff where we were like, "If you have your financial sh*t together, you get to come to this party because everyone here has their financial sh*t together."
But the tax offset- Mm-hmm ... dating strategy is- Let's fill up that- That is ab- Let's fill up that 0% cap gain bucket, you know? Yeah. That's brilliant. Oh, that's, that's awesome. I love it.
What's the Rule of Thumb for Managing Lumpy, Unpredictable Income?
Okay, I wanna switch gears to the book, but before we do, I wanna just talk about taxes a little bit more because this question comes up a lot, and I think it's...
you'll have a really interesting insight on it. So how do you help people who have, like, lumpy or unpredictable variable income? Like, rules of thumb, what is that framework or rule of thumb that you have for someone whose income is part, partly untaxed? No one's gonna like this answer, but it is the correct answer, which is save 50% of every dollar that comes in in a liquid high yield savings account, and do it for at least 15 months because that's how long you're saving for plus, you know, a tax season.
That's the framework, right? Is that realistic for everyone? Probably not, right? So if, if you can't do 50, ratchet it down to 30. If you can't do 30, do 15. That is, in my opinion, the best way to avoid surprise tax bills, which are not only... Look, it happens to all of us. It, you know, you have a great income year, yay, you made more money than you did last year, and you didn't save all of it, and You owe money to the IRS, which collects funds from us because we have a contract with society to put some money back in the coffers, right?
You know, our tax dollars go to paving our roads and our ambulances. Of course, there are other things it goes to that we maybe don't wanna pay for, but I like to think of it in a positive way. You know, if we're truly optimizing, if you're going to be the kind of person who has lumpy income for several years in a row, then we th- we talk about things like making quarterly estimated payments.
If you're not in New York City, potentially doing an S corporation to save some money on payroll taxes. If you're in New York City, an S corporation rarely makes sense, because we have this really nasty, funky corp- corporate tax that applies to small businesses, too. The advice is simple. The execution is not.
If you're making more than $200,000 in lumpy income, you need an accountant, not just a tax preparer. You need someone who's gonna meet with you at least once during the year to help you plan out to make sure you're saving enough, to make sure, if you need to make a payment, an earlier tax payment to avoid penalties, they can help you calculate that.
That's just kind of the rule of thumb. That number, I'd sort of see, like, that's where the penalties start to get, like, damaging after that income number. Yeah, 50% seems crazy, but you're, the, the point is if you don't set it aside, y- that doesn't mean you don't still owe it, and it's so much more fun to have the money available when they come for your taxes than to have to come up with it.
Yeah, and the, the 50%, you know, there are a, a select few who pay 50% in income tax, but the 50% is not just for taxes. It's also for your retirement contributions because if you work for yourself, you have to make your own 401(k), or you have to have a SEP IRA or a regular IRA. So saving for the future is fully dependent on you, and if you've saved that 50%, you know, it makes these lump sum contributions to retirement accounts a lot easier.
That's just been my experience, and basically, being a financial advisor is trying to trick people out of their own bad habits, right? Like, myself included. You know? Like, we all do wacky stuff, you know? I g- I go through periods of, like, no sp- like, don't spend anything on this credit card or whatever, and I'm like, "What am I doing?"
Like, what... But you know, we're, we're human, and what, like, whatever works, give it a go. Yeah. We say it's our job to prevent you from being your own worst enemy. Yes, yes. Like, truly, and it's not always the most fun job, but that's why you hire us, so that we can kind of intervene, especially with couples, too.
Who Is Creative Money Written For?
Anyway, lot of, lot of interesting things there. Okay, let's talk about the book, Creative Money. After years of working directly with working professionals, you decided to put it all down in a book. So who is your book for, and what makes it different from other finance books? So it's called Creative Money, and the subtitle is New Financial Rules for Artists, Innovators, and Misfits.
So the book is for those artists, innovators, and misfits. And so really, it's anyone who doesn't feel well-served by the financial system. So anyone with lumpy income, anyone with stock options, anyone who doesn't like the way they've been treated when they've tried to save or invest or make money.
The thesis of the book is like, hey, these systems exist. We live in capitalism, and you might not like that, but it doesn't mean you can't benefit from the system, and you can do it in a way that will hopefully lead to your own happiness and will also help you and your community around you. Because I find that so many personal finance books don't really, like, address the problems.
They sort of just t- tell you, "Hey, you know, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and, and save a bunch of money and, and you'll be okay." And I don't think, while that is actually good advice, right? Like, at the end of the day, you gotta s- you gotta spend less than you make, you gotta invest some money for the future, it, it's, it, it's very hard for people to start doing it because it just feels so impossible.
How Do You Start Saving When the Math Doesn't Seem to Work?
Why should I save? How can I possibly save 20% of my income when my salary is $110,000 and I live in New York City, and the cheapest apartment I can find with four roommates is $1,100 a month? The math doesn't work, right? So where do you start? So my whole thesis is like, you don't need to start with 20%.
That's crazy. You're, you're never gonna succeed. You're gonna set yourself up to fail over and over again. So let's start with little, tiny wins. Let's build those habits. Contribute 50 bucks a month to your 401(k). I don't care. Get it started, never turn off the contribution, and build upon that. And this whole idea of investing, is about time, right?
It's about putting money in the market, not touching it, and waiting to see what happens in a few decades and waking up in your 60s with millions of dollars, you know? And that's, that sounds simplistic, but like, that's the advice. So the h- the book is basically like, how can I get you to understand this in all these different ways, and, and t- try to get you to reframe your own measure of success.
I- there's a bunch of chapters about, like, setting goals and really understanding, like, what makes you happy, and, and maybe, like, resetting your expectations and really interrogating what's gonna actually make a difference in your life, as opposed to, like, I've always wanted to buy a house. Well, like, why?
Like, why do you want to buy a house? Well, because my parents want me to. When have you ever done anything that your parents want you to do you know? So it's, it, it like, it's, I'm trying to challenge you to say, like, is that really what you want? Because if you don't, it's a lot easier, and you can spend money on different things that actually might make you happy.
Why Does a Good Financial Advisor Need to Do More Than Give Good Advice?
Yep. Yep. Well, okay, so what you're touching on i- and we talked about this when we were preparing for the episode, was the, the fact that the role of a good financial advisor goes well beyond the tactical advice, right? So I guess the question very simply is why does your advisor need to do more than give you good advice?
When I entered the financial services industry, the options that were presented to me were, "Give me your money, and I will invest it, and don't worry about it." And that doesn't work for our generation of millennials and subsequent generations because we're curious and we wanna understand where is our money going, what is it invested in.
So to me, a really good financial advisor, yes, of- the table stakes are that we invest your money for you. We invest it well. We don't invest it in unnecessarily expensive vehicles. We make it tax efficient, and we protect you from yourself, right? We don't approach it from, "Hey, we're gonna do so much better than, than you, and we're gonna do so much better than the market."
Like, what we're- we're gonna show you what we're doing. Here's the portfolio. Like, I don't need to hide it from you. I don't have a secret formula that's gonna perform better than everyone else. The secret formula is getting you to actually invest more money or getting you, sometimes on the flip side, to actually have permission to spend your money because we've got a core, we've got a really nice sizable portfolio that will take care of your needs, and maybe you're paralyzed and you're not spending money because you think you're gonna run out of money.
So to me, like, working with wealthier people, you know, sometimes I kind of pause and I'm like, "Am I really making a difference with people?" Like, is this why I got into this? But then you have a conversation with someone who, you know, is able to take their whole family, including their grandparents, on a trip to Korea.
It impacts the 40 people of the family, and, like, that's pretty cool. And yeah, it cost $100,000, but we showed them that they're fine and they can spend it. So, so that's, like, where you get that little extra something than just, "Here's a tax efficient portfolio that's gonna help you retire." Appreciate that so much.
Why Is There an Estate Planning Epidemic Right Now?
A lot of the CFPs we've hired over the years, and the, the constant has been like, "Wow, this work is so much more rewarding than helping an old rich guy buy another boat." Yeah, I wish we could reach those rich guys, those old rich guys spending- buying boats because, you know, we're about to experience, we're already in the throes of it, this great wealth transfer from the older generation to the younger generation, and there is such an epidemic of lack of good estate planning.
And it's happened in my own family. It's happened in so many clients' families where a death happens unexpectedly, and planning hasn't been done, and the intentions of where you thought your money was going, don't actually align with what the state says and what the laws are, and frankly, the timing.
You know, one of the, the biggest threats to family relationships is, you know, when, when people inherit houses, and there's two siblings, and one sibling wants to keep the house and one sibling wants to sell the house. Like, well, there you go. That, that, that's a great way to make sure your kids never speak to each other, you know, after you die.
It's not funny too. It happens all the time. I'm sure everybody listening is, knows someone. You know, that idea of, yeah, it's hard. Getting an estate plan sucks. You know, parents are, parents are afraid they're gonna run out of money, so they don't wanna pass it on to their kids while they're alive. But- That's, like, truly the value of a financial plan is, hey, here's how much money you need, right?
We're gonna stress test it against stock market crashes. Let's assume there's a stock market crash every seven years for the next 30 years. Will your portfolio survive? Like, we have software that can do those models. And that's really powerful to be able to say s- to someone who's, you know, entering the last quarter of their life, to say, like, "Hey, you've got some extra cash.
Don't you have grandkids who are trying to buy a house in Brooklyn? Like, maybe they'd benefit from a little bit of that cash now that you know you don't need it." So I'm, I'm very passionate about the, the conversations about money between generations.
Is the 401(k) Backlash a Myth or a Warning Sign?
You speak about how important it is to sidestep trends. So I'm curious if there's a finance trend right now that you're pretty confident people are gonna get burned by. I think, look, I ride hard for 401(k)s. I think for most people the 401(k) is the best place to put your money for a long time. There's a, a silly backlash against 401(k)s, which we c- I just want to dismiss as a myth, that they're high fee, whatever.
The fees are not that high. They're less than 1%, and often they're very minus- minuscule. The other myth is that your company controls them, and there's, there's not as good investment options as if you did it on your own. It's 2026. There are lots of investment options. You can usually find a good, diversified, broad-based fund that's gonna invest in thousands of companies and some bonds.
Unfortunately, what has happened is people have decided that 401(k)s are not enough, and that we should spice them up, and that we should have the ability to invest in alternative assets within our 401(k). We should be able to buy real estate trusts, and we should be able to buy cryptocurrency, and we should be able to do all these other things, and that is not what the 401(k) is for.
The 401(k) is the, the foundation. It's the bedrock. We don't mess with it, and all those other things are okay. Alternatives are fine. Most of our clients have them in our, in their portfolios, but they're just further down on the list, and we only invest in, in alternatives when we know that our core is solid.
So this idea of inviting these extremely volatile... You know, look- Very high potential for reward, but extremely risky. And we invite that volatility into our bedrock, our foundation is gonna crumble. So this trend of, oh, my employer is now offering the ability to put crypto in my 401(k), like that makes me wanna gouge my eyes out.
I'm not anti-crypto, it's just we gotta do the boring, easy long-term stuff first, and then we can add it on later. So I really hope that trend goes away, and I unfortunately don't see it going away. For those of you out there who are watching too many fin talks about how the 401(k) is bogus, we wanna sidestep that one.
Just- It's just not ... It's, it's just a tax, it just helps you save taxes. That's it. That's all it is. Right. And it happens to be with your employer. And if you leave your company, nine times out of 10 you can just leave it there, and you might pay four bucks a month to keep it there, but it's okay. That is okay.
Best Bite: Where Should You Eat in Brooklyn Right Now?
You spend $4 on much worse things every day. I know I do. AJ, before I let you go, we always end our show with a segment called Best Bite. I didn't tell you about this one, but you know I'm a big foodie, and so I would love to know what is the best thing you've eaten recently. You live in my neck of the woods, so this is gonna be great.
Give me your can't miss recommendation for where I need to go and what I need to try, what I need to order. C- okay. So I was actually there last night. There is a restaurant called Karasu in Fort Greene where I live. It is a Japanese, I, I call it a steakhouse because they have a steak on the menu, but there's only one steak.
It's a rib eye and it's for two people. And it costs $100, but it's very worth it. But the reason I love Karasu is because it's a speakeasy. I love, I love a speakeasy. I love a secret bar restaurant. So there's this bar, Walter's, it's great, lovely outdoor space, great martinis, great burgers, right across from Fort Greene Park.
You walk into Walter's and you literally go in the back to this unmarked door past the bathrooms, and then you open the door into this like sexy, dark, like Japanese listening bar with amazing cocktails. I had a cocktail there last night called the Shift Drink, which was a take on a Negroni with Mezcal that was amazing.
But their rib eye is my favorite steak in the world and I r- highly, highly recommend it if you're a meat eater. And if you're not a meat eater, they have a ton of great fish too. So that's my, my bite. Karasu. The rib eye from Karasu. Yep. I am going like- Tonight if I can It's so good. It's just amazing. So- Wow
during the pandemic they closed and I, this is like, I am also a foodie and also, like, highly obsessive if you couldn't tell, my passion for things. And I had great passion for this steak, and my husband found out that they were operating out of a ghost kitchen. And so this is, like, height of the pan- pandemic.
Like, we're, we're wiping down our groceries, and somehow he gets the Karasu steak delivered to our apartment for my birthday. It wasn't as good as the restaurant, I'm gonna say. But, like, the thought that counts. So. That's so cute. Yeah, love it. That's so cute. All right, AJ, tell people where we can follow you, stay in touch with the journey.
Where Can You Find AJ Ayers and Pre-Order Creative Money?
And I understand you have a giveaway that is- Ooh, I do ... part of the book, so we wanna know. What, give us all the freebies and tell us how we stay in touch with your story. Yes. You, oh, I have this little postcard. So that's, that's what the book cover looks like. It's pretty cool, right? I wanted, like, a '70s- It is
kinda like paperback vibe. You can find me at ajaers, A-Y-E-R-S, .com. That's got all the pre-order information about the book. And we're gonna run a promo in September, that if you show us that you have pre-ordered the book through any retailer you like, Amazon, bookshop.org, your local independent bookstore, which is my favorite place to shop for books, you will get a bonus, workbook to walk through what I call the savings order of operations.
Which is basically, the way to build your own financial plan, to kind of figure out where you are, and you just keep revisiting that. So whether it's a windfall or a layoff, like, you just keep running through that. So that'll be a fun thing you can download, and work through before, while you wait for the book, which will be released on November 10th.
That's awesome. So smart. The free framework- Yes ... that comes with Creative Money. Yeah, the publisher was like- Beautiful ... "You need something extra." I was like, "Okay." The things we do. Let me think. No, but it is, it's truly a great book. And this was a great conversation. Just thank you so much for joining, AJ.
I really, really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. I hope it was helpful. So AJ's book is out November 1st. You can pre-order it now, like she mentioned, at all the places. And to those of you listening, if you liked this conversation and have a sec, please forward it to a friend or leave us a quick review.
It really helps more people find the show, and we're trying to get money conversations out there. That's the goal. If you're not subscribed, make sure you do so that you don't miss future episodes. And for all of my regular listeners, I have a special announcement coming next week, so please keep an eye out.
All right, that's it for today. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to The F Word with Priya Malani. If you like what you heard, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, and leave us a review while you're at it. We're approval junkies. Don't forget, you can find a ton of great resources, content, courses, and other freebies at stashwealth.com. Now, for the capital S stuff our lawyers want us to say.THE STUFF OUR LAWYERS WANT US TO SAY: Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
