Ep 78 | Millennial Money With The OG Expert
In this episode, Priya sits down with Erin Lowry, bestselling author of the Broke Millennial book series, to talk about what it actually takes to build wealth instead of just looking like you have it. They dig into why high earners still feel like they're living paycheck to paycheck at $250K-$350K, how a scarcity mindset gets passed down even in financially stable households, and why investing - not saving - is the real wealth-building lever. Erin also shares her own decision to skip a traditional engagement ring, and what it taught her about spending in alignment with her own values instead of other people's expectations.
Takeaways:
At $250K-$350K in an expensive city, the paycheck-to-paycheck feeling is real & the fix isn't a stricter budget.
You can inherit a scarcity mindset even if you never had a scarce childhood.
Saving for retirement is a misnomer. If your 401(k) money is sitting in a cash or money market fund, it isn't actually working towards your retirement goal.
Building wealth isn't only about cutting spending - growing your income, negotiating your pay, and creating new income streams move the needle just as much as trimming expenses.
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Guest Bio:
Erin Lowry is the bestselling author of the Broke Millennial book series, including Broke Millennial, Broke Millennial Takes On Investing, and Broke Millennial Talks Money. She's spent over a decade translating complex financial concepts into plain language for millennials and Gen Z, and now hosts Funny Money, a live comedy show about personal finance in New York City.
Guest Links:
Website: brokemillennial.com
Books:
Funny Money Tickets: https://brokemillennial.substack.com/p/funny-money-comedy-show
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Instagram: @brokemillennialblog
The Stuff Our Lawyers Want Us to Say:
Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
Transcription
Erin: Really trying to ground yourself in what is right for you, what is right for your family. If you, you know, have a partner, have a child, live, you know, have a chosen family, like whatever works for your ecosystem is what matters, and really try to filter out the noise. It's also okay to want the Birkin, you know? We can hold two truths.
Priya: God. Who the am I to tell you what to do with your money? My name is Priya Malani, currently managing millions of hardworking dollars. Enough foreplay. Let's talk money. Welcome to the F Word: Smart Money. No Bull.
Meet Erin Lowry, Author of Broke Millennial
Priya: Hey guys, I'm Priya Malani. Welcome to the F Word. Today, I'm here with a special guest, someone whose career I've been following for almost a decade. She's the author of the bestselling book Broke Millennial, with follow-ons titled Broke Millennial Takes On Investing and Broke Millennial Talks Money, which is packed with basically all the money scripts you'll ever need.
Plus, she's got an amazing workbook for those who prefer the hand-holding. Today, we're talking about what it really takes to get your financial sh*t together, as well as diving into where her career is now, and the concept of climbing a ladder, especially as an entrepreneur, when there is no ladder to climb.
Erin Lowry, welcome to the show.
Erin: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Priya: So Erin, tell us a little bit about your background, and how you ended up here, because you are one of the most trusted voices in millennial money, but it's not like you went to school for economics or finance, right?
How Erin Lowry Became a "Financial Translator" (Her Background)
Erin: Correct. So I have no money background in that traditional sense. I really like to think of myself as a financial translator. I think that is the most accurate description of the work that I do. Personal finance expert is a term that generally gets ascribed to me. But I actually studied journalism and theater in college, which ended up actually being the perfect marriage of everything that I do today.
But really especially that journalism background. What I think about as my job is I go out and interview the very experienced, very credentialed people, who all tend to speak in jargon, and don't necessarily know how to relate to the average person trying to just get their financial life together. And I take that knowledge and that information and I distill it and demystify it and make it something that is digestible and easy for the average millennial or Gen Z or whomever else wants to consume it, person to understand.
And this really started, I mean, way back when. It started in 2013 as a blog, brokemillennial.com, and I was just sharing stories about how my parents taught me about money and also lessons I was learning at a, at the time, single, child-free woman living in New York City, just kind of trying to get by. And I realized that so many of the people around me just did not wanna talk about money, and if something seems really uncomfortable and awkward for people, I'm like, "But why? I wanna know more." And that's really what inspired all of it, and then it just kinda kept taking off, and then I just really applied a lot of the journalism background and started getting access to, you know, all sorts of credentialed professionals and doing all these interviews, and then I got a book deal, and here we are.
Priya: That's amazing. So your parents talked to you about money?
Growing Up With Financial Literacy: What Erin's Parents Taught Her
Erin: A lot, yep. That's a huge part to me of my origin story, is that I grew up in a household where financial literacy was a kind of a default and a given, which is a huge amount of privilege. And I think for both of my parents, but honestly especially my dad, it was a really big focus to make sure that my sister and I understood money, understood how it worked.
You know, part of it being kind of that classic understanding the value of a dollar kind of rhetoric, but also really just understanding like how credit scores work, how to balance a budget, how to live within your means, how to save, how to invest. Like, these were conversations that were getting had my whole childhood.
On top of they modeled what they were saying. I think that is a huge thing for parents to remember, is that you can say whatever you want, but if you're not modeling that behavior, the behavior is what people are paying attention to.
Priya: Beautiful. Well said. Broke Millennial really blossomed and took off when you were single and child-free, but now you are no longer speaking from that vantage point. When you speak to parents, you are very much not single and not child free.
Erin: Correct. I've been married for quite a while now, and I have a daughter who's in her toddler phase. So, you know, she doesn't totally understand anything around money yet, but it is still already a thought about, you know, at this age, it's more about does she automatically get instant gratification for everything that she wants all the time? Are we getting instant gratification for everything we want all the time? You know, learning how to explain like, "Oh, well, we might want something, but we can't have it right now for X, Y, Z reasons." And you know, also just as she gets older and starts to want things that might be outside of our budget, having conversations that aren't going to foster any sort of scarcity mentality, to me, I don't have the answers yet. But to me is a really big piece of what I'm gonna try to do as a parent.
Priya: Ooh, I'd love to do an episode with you all on that. I think the topic of parenting, from the standpoint of money is really honestly part of my story too, 'cause there was a lot of scarcity in my household, even though my parents were working professionals, and that's a really, really important thing for me is to make sure that next gen is brought up and raised with the right ideals around money, without scarcity, but also not, you know, there's just so much to consider, so we have to do another.
Can You Inherit a Scarcity Mindset Even If You Grew Up Financially Secure?
Erin: It's so nuanced, and I, I do think that's a critical thing to understand is you can grow up with all the means, with, you know, no worries technically about, like, whether you're going to lose housing, whether you're going to have to shift schools because of job loss, whether you're going to ha- you know, have to, you know, move in with your grandparents because your parents can't afford their home anymore. Like, all of those things can be considered secure, and you can still inherit a scarcity mentality. Like, just because you grow up middle class or even upper class does not inoculate you from necessarily inheriting that. Because if one of your parents has it because maybe they grew up in true scarcity or without money, or it was passed down to them, like, that is something that really, again, the behaviors matter.
And if what's getting modeled to you is this belief of like quote, unquote, "The wolf is always at the door," "The other shoe is going to drop," like, whatever cliche you wanna use here, if that is spoken about, if that is modeled it's going to get passed down, even if all of the data is saying you shouldn't feel this way.
Priya: Totally. I had a podcast guest on, Marsha Dawood, a couple months ago, and she was talking about some research in her book where they did a study on mice and found that scarcity can actually be passed down through your DNA.
Erin: I know, it's intense.
Priya: So never mind, it doesn't matter what you do. So we all need to learn this stuff. You're the expert on millennials and money, and just money. Personal finance when you're getting started especially. Is there actually something different about millennials and money, or do you find that we just wanna think that we're special, like a special case, and are the principles really the same across generation?
Are Millennials' Money Struggles Really Different From Other Generations?
Erin: In some ways, yes, and in a lot of ways, no. And to me, the in a lot of ways no is that purchasing power has eroded so much and cost has gone up so much in a way that is just not comparable to previous generations. And, you know, to a degree it can be said, like, every generation has their version of struggle, but it does feel a bit unique to millennials that, like, truly at every point where we get a foothold, something catastrophic globally, nationally, or domestically I should say for people in the United States, like whatever it is, something big happens that feels like it knocks all of us back again.
And one of the ways that I think it's important to position is the fact that many millennial families, and I'm just going to use the family example because I think it's one of the most relevant, it is incredibly hard to raise a family even of just one child on a single person's salary. Where for a generation prior, you might not have been even comfortably middle class, but you could have had two plus kids on one person's salary, even if that person worked a working class job.
Now, I'm not saying it would be without struggle, I'm not saying it would be without even potentially credit card debt, but it would be a modest amount compared to now it just feels like everything is so expensive. I mean, heaven forbid if you have a toddler, don't look at the projected cost of college in 16 years to 15 years. Don't do it. Don't do it. It's brutal.
And our incomes, like everyone knows wage, wage stagnation is real. Our incomes have not remotely kept up. You know, I was having a conversation recently with somebody who is several decades older than I am, and a comment got made of like, "Well, I wasn't that age when I started making six figures." And my immediate thought was, yeah, but six figures in '84 is like 60 grand today. That's not a relevant stat.
Priya: Mm. People at this age frankly should then be making six figures by their later 20s if we're talking about costs.
Erin: 30, yeah. So a lot of the principles I would say hold true in terms of compound interest, investing early, minimizing debt to the best of your ability. But realistically what people can do. Like, no, I'm sorry, you cannot work a job and pay for your undergrad degree in tandem unless your employer is paying for a huge amount of your college and you're just taking night classes and working absolutely full-time. Like, it just isn't a thing in the same way as it used to be.
The world has changed significantly, and I don't think we're that dissimilar from Gen Z. I think Gen Z is also having just as brutal of a time because now the AI of it all is making things extremely complicated for them in their early career.
Priya: Mm. Damn. But facts.
Erin: But I'm not saying it's not doable. I think that's the other part is like it's all this heavy stuff at the beginning of like, basically we're screwed, but then sorry, you still have to handle it, you know? And I think that's what's hard.
Priya: Agreed. Agreed. I mean, we come at it from a control what you can control. Like, don't—
Erin: Yeah...
Priya: —sit in the victim narrative. You have choices. They're not always ideal, but you still have choices. Like, are you exercising the choices that you do have in the most optimized way?
Erin: Totally. You can't just throw your hands up and say like, "Oh, we're f*cked. Let me do nothing." There are things that you can do to take care of even if it's just your nuclear, your little, your little pod, your immediate—
Priya: Yeah...
Erin: —surrounding. Before you can get to the point where you're building wealth and can be generous to others, et cetera. And also keeping in mind that generosity doesn't have to mean spending a lot of money, both in terms of giving back to your community, showing up for your community, your network, all of that. You know, there's a lot to expand on, on that. But yeah, millennials have had an extremely hard go of it.
Gen X and the Sandwich Generation
Erin: Now listen, I also, I don't wanna forget about Gen X. I've shouted out boomers, Gen Z, millennials, Gen X, I know forgotten generation. Don't wanna forget you guys. They have phased deeply into the sandwich generation in a way that millennials, it's coming for us. We're almost there. And that's the idea of caring for aging parents while raising your own children, and you're sandwiched in between, and those are two big financial pressures. So Gen X is also having a really hard time of it financially. Like, it is not this — none of this is unique to millennials. It more just feels like we didn't get the opportunity to get a foothold in the way that some of our predecessors did.
Priya: Mm. And then we're going to forever be dealing with the financial consequences of that.
Erin: It does feel like forever.
Priya: All right, let's get into some of your advice. Your second book is about investing. When do you typically suggest is the right time for somebody to start thinking about it?
When Should You Start Investing? Erin Lowry's Advice
Erin: I mean, thinking about it, as soon as you get access to an income—
Priya: Mm...
Erin: —just in terms of starting to learn about it, so thinking about it. As soon as you also have access to an employer matched retirement plan—
Priya: Yeah...
Erin: —or really any sort of retirement plan. You know, we always really talk about the narrative of a 401(k) with a match, but obviously it depends on your job. Listen, there are few and far between, but there still are pension jobs out there, mostly working for state or federal government. One of those feels more secure than the other right now, depending on which state you live in.
But it is really important to understand that when it comes to investing, especially when we start thinking about retirement, the earlier you start, even with just small sums of money, makes such a huge difference over your life. So if you have any wiggle room to contribute 1%, 2%, 3% of your paycheck to a 401(k), especially if you get a match, 'cause that is, I'm sure you've heard it before, literally free money. Take it.
And the other thing too that I like to point out is that the, you know, the standing advice is, like, 10 to 15% should be going to a 401(k). That feels so not doable to so many people. I'm even in a phase of my life, I'm like, "Pfft, that's not happening. I will not be doing that this year." And, and that's another thing to remember, like, seasons of life. Part of the reason that you wanna start early and be consistent is so if you go through a season where maybe you have to switch it down a little bit, you're not completely blowing everything up. You're not trying to play catch-up later.
So the earlier you start, even if it's small. I also love thinking about it in terms of tiny increments. Don't focus on the 10 to 15. Start at 1%. You're not even gonna notice it out of your paycheck, like, truly. And then in three to six months, push up to two. And then in three to six months, push up to three. And, like, do these tiny steps because you're barely gonna feel it, and you'll adjust accordingly instead of going from zero to 10 or zero to 15, 'cause that s- you're gonna feel, and it's gonna be a little painful.
So starting early, being consistent, and the bigger thing too, I actually — have you had Doug Boneparth on the podcast before?
Priya: Yeah, Doug and Heather.
What Does It Mean to "Earn the Right to Invest"?
Erin: Okay. Yeah, so shout out to Doug specifically for this line. He, I interviewed him for my second book, and he has this really good line about you have to earn the right to invest. But what he means, in this case, is outside of your retirement plan. So you need, if you wanna like be doing taxable investing, if you're trying to get into things like crypto or any of that, should be a small amount of your portfolio. But you have to earn the right to do that, and by that it means you don't have any high interest rate debt. Like if you have any credit card debt, you've paid that down. You know, preferably even on your student loans, if you've, you're able to like get more aggressive on paying those off, especially if they're sitting anything above like 5 to 7% interest rate, which some of those private loans, those can have brutal instre- interest rates.
So just making sure that you're setting yourself up with your basics first, but your basics can still include investing, because you're investing for retirement.
Why You Should Stop Saying "Save for Retirement" (And Start Investing Instead)
Erin: And my last soapbox thing on all of this right now, we use the wrong language. We say save for retirement. We are wrong. You're investing for retirement. The save for retirement rhetoric really is a misnomer, because your money should not be sitting in savings. It should not be in a savings account if you're putting it into your 401(k). It should not be in a cash settlement fund or a cash management fund or a money market fund. It should be invested. So make sure that your money is actually invested.
The easiest way to do that is log into your account. If you can't figure it out at all, pick up the phone and call your provider, have a conversation with them. But if you see the words like money market fund, cash settlement fund, that means it's sitting in cash, but the bigger indicator is if it's barely moved over the last six months, year. The market's been a bit wild lately, like on a tear. So if you have not seen kind of a dramatic increase, it's probably sitting in cash. So you wanna make sure that your money is actually invested and that you are investing for retirement.
Priya: Love that. That's so true. We all just say save for retirement, but it's actually investing for retirement, and you can never start too soon, especially if you have a 401(k) match. Oh, I love that. And earning the right to invest beyond retirement, getting yourself in a spot where that investment actually will pay off for you because you're not being dragged down by things like consumer debt, student loan debt, et cetera. Earn the Right to Invest. Okay, shout out Doug Boneparth. He's awesome.
Erin: Yep.
Priya: What do you say then to the... You know, obviously this podcast is mostly listened to by 30-somethings making six figures, ambitious professionals who are by all means like the A student, sat at the front of the class, doing all the things right, checked all the boxes, got the memo, followed it, and have set their life up for success, but they're just making 250, 350. Now, serious money, but they're kinda thinking like, "For all intents and purposes, I'm gonna kind of punt my financial life until I just feel like I'm not living paycheck to paycheck." 'Cause a lot of people earning two thou- $100,000, $300,000 definitely in big cities still feel like they're living paycheck to paycheck. So what do you say to them?
Why High Earners Still Feel Like They're Living Paycheck to Paycheck
Erin: Well, first I don't belittle it. I think that so often the response is like, "At $250,000 you feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck?" No, I get it. I live in New York City. I understand how I could feel that way. Part of it is thinking about, like who you're around and who are you trying to keep up with.
Priya: Mm-hmm. And are you in alignment? You know, I'm gonna position for a moment away from just like practical financial advice. And is the way that you are spending, saving, and investing, does that feel good to you? Is that in alignment with what you actually want, what your future goals are, even thinking one to two years out? Or are you doing it because in your industry it's expected, it's what your friends are doing, it's what you're seeing? And also, how practically are you understanding what the people around you... Like are you all playing the same game, or are they actually being funded by generational wealth and you just didn't realize that?
Lifestyle Design: How to Stop Spending to Keep Up With Others
Erin: So you think that you have the same buying power, but yours is just yours, and theirs is theirs plus a trust fund. It's so important to contextualize all of that for yourself, and to understand knowing it doesn't make you feel better. Like it is so hard. I've thought about this a lot with New York City specifically. It is very hard to live in a city where you walk out your front door, especially depending on your neighborhood, you can almost immediately be greeted with flexes of wealth signifiers that you're just like, "That's not my life. That's not what I'm gonna have." And if that's what you want, it's just like constantly in your face.
And it's okay to want it, too. I think that's the other part of this. Like if that is a lifestyle to which you aspire, that's fine, but then also considering the trade-offs. Trade-offs being you're probably gonna work for a lot longer. Trade-offs being you have to stay in a profession that's going to pay you an inordinate amount of money in order to achieve that lifestyle, and it might be a profession with a really high burnout rate, and you're exhausted, and you want to like buy your homestead in the middle of nowhere and move, because those apparently are the only options these days.
It's these two extremes that everybody talks about. You're either raising your own chickens for eggs, or you're paying $14.99 at Whole Foods. You know, I just, I do feel especially in city living, like those are just the extremes that everybody thinks about and talks about. But I really would challenge folks to, to try to center in on more of the lifestyle design aspect of it, of like truly thinking from a perspective of what do you actually want? What do you want your life to look like? What would feel like an aligned life to you, to use kind of the more woo woo term, to use kind of like more prevalent rhetoric around it. Like, what is a rich life to you? What is a full life? What is a happy life? Writing those things down. A lot of them probably don't actually have to do that much with money, but money makes it easier.
So if it's, you know, spending time with loved ones, maybe your loved ones don't live near you, so having the finances to be able to take the trips to go see them or fly them to you or whatever it is. But just trying to take the centering being of money out of it and make the centering about what you want your life to look like, and then figuring out the price tag of that life and working on that.
The other part, if you are making healthy six figures and you don't have debt. Even if you live in a really expensive city, you can have a really nice life, but it's also really easy to be letting other people spending your money because you're trying to keep up, or because of, you know, the type of trips they're taking, or the kind of things that you're having to buy.
So it is just really thinking about the what you want and how you wanna spend your money. Please don't let other people spend your money. That's gonna come up probably a few more times in this conversation, but it is so easy to let other people spend our money, and that I find really important for people to push on.
And to push back on what everyone that you are spending time with, like, what they think is normal is normal in their social circle. But for instance, just using a relevant point in my life, I live on the Upper West Side. It's a nice neighborhood. You don't have to send your kid to a private school. You don't. It's not necessary. There are some situations where maybe your kid does need to go to a private school, but you don't have to send your kid to a private school. So that's a way to put about 75 to $80,000 back in your budget annually if you are a family that's dedicated to like, "Hey, we live in a neighborhood that, especially in elementary school, has excellent public schools. We wanna buy in to the public school system. We wanna support the public school system. I am not letting the chatter of being around all these people who are sending their kids to private school convince me that that is the right choice when I know for my family this is the right choice." So just really trying to ground yourself in what is right for you, what is right for your family.
If you, you know, have a partner, have a child, live, you know, have a chosen family, like whatever works for your ecosystem is what matters, and really try to filter out the noise. It's also okay to want the Birkin. You know, we can hold two truths.
Priya: Of course. I love how you answered that question and where you took it, because it is beyond the numbers, and it goes back to the control what you can control and lifestyle design. Do you really want that, or are you influenced to want that? But it's a really fine line, 'cause we're so bombarded. It, it can be really difficult to stop and think, "Am I making this decision for me, or am I making this decision because I saw somebody else make this decision who maybe their life is something that I'm trying to make mine look like?"
Erin Lowry's Personal Story: Why She Didn't Want a Diamond Engagement Ring
Erin: You know, I have a very... I'll try to be short about it, but I have a personal version, like a personal anecdote around this, which is when I knew engagement was coming, we'll put it that way. Like, you know, my husband and I at the time, we had been together for years. We knew we wanted to get married. We had kind of phased into a point in our life where we're like, "Okay, we feel stable. We feel ready. This makes sense." I around, like maybe a year prior to that, had really actually started to do a lot of refle- reflecting about the engagement ring because I was seeing a lot of my friends were getting married at that point. I was seeing a lot of rings. I was getting a lot of advertisements online about engagement rings.
And I just started to realize like, I don't think this is for me, for a couple of reasons. One, frankly, I don't like the practice, in a heterosexual relationship. I don't like the idea that just the woman is kind of getting branded, for lack of a better term, and wearing this thing that signifies that she's taken when the husband or the fiance isn't wearing one. So my first pitch was like, "Hey, if I have an engagement ring, you need to have an engagement ring." And he was like, "Well, that's kinda weird." I was like, "Yeah, well, I think the other thing is weird. I think it's weird that I would be the only one that's wearing it." And then I also started thinking a lot about like what do I want this piece of jewelry to look like because I do like the symbolism of wedding rings.
Both people tend to wear them. I like a lot of the history around them, what they mean in terms of exchanging them in front of people you love. But again, I was like the big diamond or the big gem of any... Wait, like it just, it's not me. This is not the kind of jewelry I wear. This is not an aesthetic that I just particularly like.
So why would I do it? And it took, like truly over a year to like really think about it and reflect on like am I just being stubborn? Am I just in like this phase of like screw the man, or is that like truly what I want? And so first the engagement happened, no ring. I did not wear a ring at any point in being engaged, which also forces the person to become really creative, 'cause if there's no, like, prop to hide behind, it was actually, like, a really fun way that we got engaged.
But then the other part became, "Well, what do I want my wedding ring to be?" And it was simple. Like, I just wear gold rings. Now, one of them's very fancy. This is from a fancy jeweler. This is technically my wedding ring. It's now too big, so I wear it on my other hand. But it wasn't anywhere near even a modest diamond.
It's still way cheaper than that. So financially it was in alignment with what I wanted to spend, but more importantly, it was like I still have a very nice piece of jewelry, and it's something that's meaningful to me, and we had this, like, really fun experience going together to this fancy store and getting to pick it out.
But here I am, eight years, almost nine years after getting engaged, zero regrets. I am so glad that I picked something that just made sense for what I wanted, and it still to this day just makes me so happy. I wear it every day. It's a piece that I love. Like, it's not... The diamond wasn't in alignment with a value.
Now, maybe my mind will change in another decade and I'll want it, and then, like, cool. At that point, maybe we get it. But don't get it because, A, you're supposed to, B, everybody else is doing it, C, people are gonna judge you because you don't have one and they're gonna think that you're broke or that you can't afford it.
Screw it. Let them think that. Be stealth wealth. But also, you don't know how they bought that ring. Maybe they leveraged credit up the wazoo to get it. So just do what actually makes sense for you and what feels good to you, instead of doing what is going to make other people happy or be impressed by you.
Priya: I mean, good for you. Kudos to having a strong sense of self, and kudos to your husband for not... You know, he seems like a stand-up guy who's not threatened by your strong opinions that can-
Erin: He had many years of experience with them.
Priya: Yeah.
Erin: He, he knew what he was getting.
Priya: Go against the grain. Well, that's what makes you, you. It's, it's, it's, we need more of that.
[Ad Break: Stash Wealth]
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Priya: Okay, so speaking of you have different and interesting opinions, I wanna get into a few. What's the most expensive belief people have about money?
The Most Expensive Money Belief, According to Erin Lowry
Erin: There's a two-parter to this. There's two options. The first common belief that costs people the most money is that you have to be wealthy to start investing. This idea that you need a lot of money, that you have to have all of your foundation prepared before you start investing because, to tie back to earlier, they don't realize that you are investing for retirement, not saving for retirement. So if you are putting money in a 401(k) or a similar retirement vehicle, and it is invested, please think of yourself as an investor, because you are.
Why You Don't Need to Be Rich to Get Financial Advice
Erin: But the second big mistake that people make is kind of tied in, in this idea that you have to be rich to seek help with your money. So to go to a financial advisor, this idea of like, "Well, I have to be at least a millionaire, right, in order to get help." And there are so many inflection points in your life where it can be really helpful to have a third party, a neutral third party, assess your finances. Getting married is a good example, buying a house, going through divorce, having a child, having to take care of an aging parent or other relative. Just make sure you understand how to vet that person, and make sure you understand if you're being sold a product in any way. How people earn money makes a really big difference in this conversation, and so just really understand, is this an insurance salesman, or is this somebody who actually is going to help me with my financial life?
So the number of people that never get financial help, especially as they age towards retirement, because they think they can't afford it or they think they aren't wealthy enough, I would say particularly when you're looking at people trying to retire, that is probably the most costly financial mistake folks make.
Priya: Well, I'm actively recruiting at the moment, a new financial advisor at Stash Wealth. And I would say about 20 to 30% of the interviews that I've had, people are looking to swap to come to a fiduciary fee-only system because their company that claimed to be has now pivoted into pro- pushing product, annuities, insurance, et cetera. Those are the worst offenders.
Erin: But there are so many people out there who are still kind of forced by the structure of the company they work for to earn their keep by pushing products on unsuspecting retail consumers. And that is not the only type of financial advice. Also shameless plug, obviously Stash Wealth was founded on the principle that you shouldn't need a million dollars, you shouldn't need half a million dollars, you shouldn't need any sort of money to be able to seek out good advice, solid advice to basic financial questions so that you can actually get your financial sh*t together. Anyway.
Growing Your Income vs. Cutting Expenses: Which Matters More?
Erin: Well, I do worry so often that when it comes to personal finance, we focus on like cut, cut, cut — just trying to control every little piece, you know, really strict budget, just slashing everything when you need to, as opposed to also taking even half of that energy and putting it towards how do you grow your income? How do you invest to grow your wealth? How are we creating actual meaning for wealth for ourselves? And again, wealth is relative. Like, how much you're gonna need for one person could be 1.5, and for another one could be 7 million. Like, these are two very different needs. But the point is, even on a modest income, you can still start to think about growing and building wealth for yourself.
And part of that is growing your income, minimizing how much debt you take on, learning how to set healthy financial boundaries for yourself, protecting your credit score if necessary. Like, there's just all these levers, but we get so fanatical about the cut, cut, cut, trim, trim, trim, budget, budget, budget, which is, it feels painful, and then people get frustrated and give up.
Spending less than you earn is not the only way to build wealth. You can also earn more. So flipping on the other side of the equation, obviously spending less than you earn is definitely a basic principle of sound personal financial advice. At the end of the day, focusing on earning more, negotiating, improving, upskilling, improving your value to, to the company, creating multiple income streams. There's other ways to grow your wealth than just to cut back and spend less and all the un-fun stuff.
And listen, there are seasons, right? Like, there are probably gonna be seasons of your life where you're like, "Ugh, well, I gotta cut out some subscriptions, and I have to like, you know, ra- turn it down for a period of time because I'm trying to do X, Y, Z," whether that's save, whether that's a transition period in your career, what have you. But if that's where all the energy is going, that's more what I'm concerned about, as opposed to like also making sure that you're putting just as much energy into how do I build, how do I grow.
Priya: So Erin, there's a lot of influencers out there talking about money manifestation, and — that's such a good segue. You've been pretty vocal about the idea that you cannot manifest your way to wealth. So tell us a little bit more about that. Where do you land?
Can You Manifest Your Way to Wealth? Erin Lowry's Take
Erin: Yeah, no, you can't. Full stop. Allison, I say that because so many of the people that are peddling the nonsense version, there's a strong correlation I feel between the manifesting rhetoric and the sowing seeds tithing rhetoric that you see in certain religions around, like, well, if you just give enough money to the church, God will provide for you. I am not trying to bash anyone's religion or anybody's reli- belief in manifestation. My point is that both of those things are not true if they are not paired with action. You can't just believe that something is going to happen and do nothing to try to move it along, and then it just happens. And maybe there's, like, one or two people, the whole exception to the rule. Like, I'm gonna say, maybe there's one or two in the world.
But what I worry about is with a lot of the TikTokification of personal finance and that particular vertical. Like, there's a lot of great advice on social media about how to manage your money, but there's a lot of dangerous advice, and a lot of the people that are giving that danger ad- advice are trying to sell you a course or a book or a crystal or whatever. So they're trying to sell you something to get you to buy in.
What I do love and respect around the manifestation idea is this abundance mentality that people are trying to promote. That is important. It is great to believe that wealth is not finite, that, you know, to use another cliché here, a rising tide lifts all boats, that just because so-and-so gets a raise doesn't mean that you'll never get a raise. Like, it is good to believe that abundance is out there and exists and can exist for yourself, it being the flip side of that scarcity mentality that can be so damaging to people's finances.
But there also can be a, a course correction on, like, a, an overabundance mentality, this idea of, like, oh, I'll just spend all the money, and it's just gonna flow back to me, and that's okay. And you can also put yourself at pretty big risk by doing that. So healthy, manifesting abundance mentality paired with consistent, actionable steps towards achieving your goal, big fan. Just a belief that money is gonna flow to you 'cause you're special, not a fan. And just because you say it and believe it, the other thing that I push back against is like, well, what happens if it doesn't? What happens when it doesn't flow to you?
Your guru in the space will probably say something like, "Well, you, you weren't believe- You didn't truly believe. You didn't really believe it was gonna happen." So the onus is never on their advice, the onus is always on you, the manifester, that you screwed up, you didn't do it right, not that there's a chance that they are peddling any sort of malarkey towards you.
So again, abundance mentality, if you wanna call that manifesting, I'm okay with that as long as you are pairing it with actionable, incremental steps to lead towards your wealth, your lifestyle design, what have you.
Priya: I love that point. It's like, yes, have positivity and dream bigger and all those things, but also be taking the s- necessary steps. You can't just wanna get better at personal finance and want it, you have to actually go learn it, read a book, read one of your books. And it's true, like literally anything we wanna do in life, right? Like, you have to make action. Like, if you, if you're somebody who's like really fixated on finding your person, and that's really important to you, well, you go on dates. You do things. You go, you go looking for them.
Erin: Sounds so simple. Yeah, and it — listen, and I'm not saying it is. Like, it takes so much work for so much of this to be achieved, and it is helpful to have that good mentality, but please do more with it.
Priya: I wanna talk a little bit about your career at large. There are a lot of people who listen to this who are paving their own way. Maybe they don't work in a corporation, or maybe they do and they are, you know, hoping to free themselves someday. But I'm curious, let's just talk about what some of the bigger challenges have been in entrepreneurship for you. We talked about this a little bit offline, and you brought up a really interesting point about climbing a career ladder when you're the person who's kind of building it or designing the ladder as you're climbing it. How, how, what — so has that been —
Erin: Yeah.
Priya: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your journey.
What It's Like to Build a Career Ladder as an Entrepreneur
Erin: It's an interesting time for me specifically, 'cause I'm, like, very much in flux of trying to figure out what's next, where I wanna go. And the thought being that for so many people who stay on a more corporate path, there is a trajectory. There's a ladder, there's a map, like, whatever you wanna call it, but you can see what the next step logically would be, unless you wanna pivot out of your industry. For me, I think with a lot of what I've done, there is not necessarily a logical next step, so there is no ladder to follow. It's trying to either build your ladder as you're climbing and see what works, or it just is. Like, it just, it's so hard sometimes to navigate what a career looks like when there's not necessarily a logical path to follow.
And I also — I'm going to butcher this quote, but I heard a line the other day that was, "I never had a career. I just worked." And sometime- that, like, really hit me in a very specific way where I'm like, "Is that kind of what I've been doing?" Because, I mean, people look at the body of work and call it a career, but like I do so many different things. Have I just been working? Like, is it a career? And the person who was referencing this works in the arts, they're an actor, and I thought like, "Oh, that's a very interesting thought process," that like when you don't necessarily just promote, climb, promote, climb, promote, climb, like what, what do we define — like, what is a career?
Priya: Yeah, and you've already been a best-selling author. You are a best-selling author. How do you even top that? Is that the top of the rung? Is it, or are you —
Erin: I didn't get the New York Times list, so that would be one of them. That would be, that would be the next rung.
Erin Lowry on Ambition, Burnout, and the FIRE Movement
Erin: But again, I think what's so important — all right. So vulnerability, I am a very ambitious person who is never satisfied with what I've achieved, and that's a dangerous place to be. Where content, like just being content can also sometimes be the antithesis of ambition in certain ways, and sometimes if you can just figure out how to marry the two correctly, that's the perfect place to be.
And there's a photo of me from the launch party I had when my first book came out where you just can see, I don't know if the average person can see it looking at the picture, but I can see that what's happening behind my eyes is I'm like, "All right, what's next?" I'm actively in the party to celebrate the book that I couldn't believe had happened, and I'm already starting to plot, how do I level up from here?
Priya: Relatable.
Erin: And that is hard. Like, there are some ways that that is, like, very admirable. It's people who push themselves, and then there's ways where, like, you're, you turn 35 and you burn out and you're exhausted and you don't know what to do next, and you feel like your whole life has been a lie, career speaking, and you don't know how to navigate. And then also maybe you're dealing with postpartum at the same time, and then everything just, like, goes out of whack. I don't know. Maybe somebody else can relate to that too.
It's hard to give yourself grace when you've been, whether it's nature or nurture, wired to be a very ambitious person. But if you don't know what you're trying to be ambitious towards, there's, like, all of this energy, and you can't figure out where to direct it. It's a very painful feeling, and I do think that a lot of entrepreneurs, self-employed people experience some version of that. But also even people who are traditionally employed who had a career and a trajectory that they loved and then get laid off. That's a very similar feeling. Or also maybe you've changed and grown and evolved in certain ways and realize, like, oh, maybe this isn't the version of life that I wanted, and this over here is a version of life that I wanted. And I'm not saying that means that you're lacking ambition or are downshifting from ambition. But you, again, seasonally, like, you could go through a season of feeling like, yeah, I'm just, I'm not in my ambitious era right now.
Priya: Mm. But I bet it returns. But you know, it, it does get me wondering if this is, like, an American thing or, like, a global thing. Is there something to be said, and maybe I — I'm kinda seeing a parallel for people who are earning a lot of money and wanting to achieve all these milestones on get the bigger house and get the fancy car and kinda spending without truly, like — and then it's, like, also the same thing from your career. Like, get the bigger title, get on The New York Times Best Seller list. Like, there's, like, this I need to keep doing all these things for who? For what? Why?
Erin: Yeah, I do think that some of it is very American, but I would also position that I think it's very American to dream and to feel like you can have these big lives where our society, probably to its detriment, promotes that idea and supports that idea, where culturally not every society does, and, like, you're supposed to be a cog in the wheel. So that is one, I would say beautiful part and potentially da- it's a double-edged sword, right? For American culture and society and people at large.
I think the FIRE movement is a really interesting encapsulation of all of this. I don't know how popular that movement is outside of the US, to be honest. Like, I think some people probably do it, but it feels like a deeply American response to our society. And for those who are unfamiliar, the Financial Independence Retire Early, FIRE movement, of which I've been a somewhat vocal critic for the last decade. And mostly because what I have witnessed from my vantage point is a lot of people who have done it believe that their job is why they are having a hard time with certain elements of life. Instead of addressing what internally might be going on, they focus all of this energy towards amassing a lot of wealth at a young age and leaving their job. And I think there's a honeymoon period for about a year, and then you see all of a sudden a reckoning with like, "Oh, the depression's back. Maybe it wasn't my job. Maybe it's something else."
But maybe for some people, the honeymoon period lasts forever. But there's been more than one think piece for people who did it where all of a sudden, like, "Oh, no, it's me. I'm still here. I'm the common denominator." And it is a big, ambitious goal to amass a lot of wealth and be able to walk away, but also, like, I think FIRE to kind of retire to a passion project or to a different job or to, like, really have purpose makes a lot of sense, and I do feel like the rhetoric has sort of pivoted and rebranded towards that in the last several years.
Because it's not that much different than people who retire at a more traditional age and then die like a couple years later because all of a sudden they don't have purpose — they don't have anything. They didn't foster hobbies. They didn't put into their community. They don't have the support system, and everything that felt like it gave them meaning is all of a sudden gone, and they didn't realize that was gonna happen until they retired.
So it's, again, coming back to lifestyle design. It is making sure that even if a big goal is to amass wealth, to achieve certain things in life, that, like, you're also pouring yourself into building a community, giving of yourself to that, of being an involved person in the world, of, of having hobbies, of having interests, of, like, making yourself an interesting person, because money does not make you interesting.
Priya: Mm. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Money and Purpose: Why "Your Life by Design" Matters
Priya: Well, I'm just gonna throw this out there, because it — we've said it a couple times, but the Stash Plan, which is the financial planning experience that we designed at Stash Wealth for our 30-something audience, the tagline of it is, "Your life by design," for that exact reason. It's putting intentionality — 'cause it's not about money. It's not about getting smarter with your money. Yes, you will get smarter. You will learn all the things. You will start investing. You will do all the things. But it's, at the end of the day, all we're doing is asking you, like, what do you imagine for your life? I can back it up with the money all day long, easy, especially when you're a six-figure earner. There's nothing you can't do. But the hardest part of it is sitting down and saying, like, and especially with a partner, huge conversation starter. I don't care if you've been together two, five, 10, 15 years. Huge conversation starter to do it in the construct of designing your life with someone, and then utilizing your money to, to back it up, give purpose, a- align values.
Erin: Folks who were raised with little to not a lot of extras to no extras. There's almost like a survivor guilt sometimes that happens for people when they achieve a certain amount of wealth and income and stability, and whether that's feeling the need to take care of everybody in your family because you achieved and they maybe didn't, or it's just like it was never modeled to you to think about the lifestyle design element of your life. So this idea of like, wait, just having the money doesn't just beget what I want. Like, it can, but you have to self-identify what you want, and if what you wanted was just the money and then you achieved the money, the next step is figuring out, well, okay, what else do you want in your life? And just acknowledging that that can be a really uncomfortable, hard process for folks, especially if you were raised in an environment where just trying to achieve was the goal, or there was never thought about anything beyond really, like, survival and maybe a tiny bit extra.
Priya: We're all learning. We're all just trying to figure it the fuck out. You've given us so many amazing things to think about. Erin, you are such a badass. We're so grateful to have you in the community. I have a little thing I do before I let you go. It's a segment called Best Bite. I'm a huge foodie. You live in the city, so easy access for me. Give me something that you've had recently that you tried at a restaurant. Maybe it was a drink, maybe it was an appetizer, whatever. I wanna know what is your recommendation. Where do I need to go? What do I need to try?
Best Bite: Erin Lowry's NYC Restaurant Recommendations
Erin: I would say Pig and Khao, which now I think they only have an Upper West Side location. It is baseline supposed to be like Filipino food, but it's sort of a lot of fusion. Two things. One, if you go for dinner, this is so basic, but their coconut rice, I don't know what extra thing they do to it. Their coconut rice is so good. It is so good. But all of their food is good. They also have this one rice cake that they cook in basically duck fat that is ju- like, it's just incredible. I love all of their food.
But had been sleeping on their brunch, and we went and tried their brunch recently. So we did the family style for four people. Actually, my daughter was there, so we did it for five people, and the waiter was like — I mean, she's a baby, and we're like, "She can eat. Do it for five." And it was incredible. They had pancakes that were like key lime pie pancakes. I'm not even that big of a key lime pie person. It just was texture, flavor. It's so good. But Pig and Khao, and Khao is K-H-A-O, incredible. It's an institution.
Priya: I have never freaking been to Pig and Khao. It is blowing my mind. I, I'm so glad you brought that back into my purview.
Erin: Just putting it out there, for two demographics, one, people with a Chase Sapphire Reserve card, it is on the OpenTable for your $150 credit that you get every six months, so there. Parents, if you go for dinner at 5:00, they're blasting hip hop music in there. If your kid is loud, no one hears. And all the waiters are fantastic. We have never — our child has been to Pig and Khao more than any other restaurant, because it is so good, and then the vibe is so good even with a toddler. And like they have crayons and whatever, and they like make it fun, but it also feels like a grown-up date night spot. And then if you go at 5:00, like Upper West Side is a family neighborhood, there are so many kids in there, so you don't feel like, "Oh, no, I'm crashing date night." Date night's coming at 7:00 or after, so you're good.
And then if you wanna keep it in like the restaurant nepo baby experience, if you go to Caffe Panna, just order a pint ahead and pick it up. Do not stand in that line. Caffe Panna is amazing. I am a dairy connoisseur. I do consider myself an expert in dairy. It is incredible ice cream. No ice cream is worth an hour-long wait. Just order a pint and pick it up at the window.
Priya: Wait, what flavor?
Erin: Any flavor. It doesn't matter. They also change their flavors every single week. But here's my somewhat controversial ice cream take. If you've never tried a place, you should at least try their vanilla, because that is the difference maker. If they don't do a good vanilla, it's not a good ice cream, because you can't fake it with a vanilla because it's so simple.
Priya: Yeah, I agree. I agree. You gotta try like a basic, see how their foundation is. Okay, let me — this is so, so good. I literally, I eat, I do all the recs. A- any time I get a rec from a guest I, I go. So I'm so excited for this one, Upper West Side. So coconut rice at the din- on the dinner menu, and key lime pie. Coconut rice is included if you do the family style. Also if you do the dinner, the wings are so good. Again, I don't know what they're putting on the wings, but they are very good. Okay, at, at this point I'm just gonna go with you 'cause I —
Erin: Yeah, that's fine. We need a cow. We can just do a, a tasting menu. I think that's a good plan.
Priya: Yeah, definitely a pig and cow. And then I'd spoke to somebody recently who's like, "Oh, we didn't really like it," and I almost said, "Do you not like flavor?" That was almost my response. Everything that you want it to be, I feel like it lives up.
Erin: And, I feel like I have to like put down my card that I did live in Asia for like most of my childhood, so I do know of what I speak.
Priya: Where did you grow up?
Erin: Japan and China.
Priya: Okay. So not Southeast Asia, but I traveled.
Erin: Amazing.
Priya: Oh, that's so cool. I didn't know that about you.
Erin: Yeah.
Priya: Fascinating. Erin, thank you so much. We're gonna drop all the links to your Best Bites and your books and your — Oh, tell us, oh my gosh, you have a really cool new project you're working on.
Erin Lowry's New Project: The Funny Money Comedy Show
Erin: T- I'm coming, I'm coming in July. We're recording this in June. I'm coming to the July one. But tell everyone where they can come see your new project. Yeah, so I have a comedy show about money that's called Funny Money, and every single show the theme will change. So the inaugural show happened to be on Mother's Day, so we did a Can I Ever Afford to Have a Kid in New York City themed show. The next show, peak summer, we're doing How to Live Life While Paying Off Debt. September show will be September 13th. This is all at Caveat on the Lower East Side. I don't know yet what the theme is gonna be. It'll speak to me in probably late July. You're gonna come, you're gonna laugh, but you're gonna learn something, so you wanna laugh and pick up a pencil to take notes. But I come out, I do a little bit of a comedic story, I bring out another personal finance expert, we have a chat on the topic, then a stand-up comedian comes out and does a set, then the three of us sit down as a panel and one brave New Yorker comes on stage and shares their personal issues with their financial life, and we, in real time, problem solve some of their issues. And then we open up for live audience Q&A.
Priya: Wow, that, truly brave soul. That is awesome.
Erin: Yeah. I can't, I can't wait. I'm so excited. I missed the Mother's Day one, but I'm coming out to the next one, maybe even the September one. I can't wait. I'm so excited.
Priya: You are brilliant. This was a very enlightening conversation, and thank you so much for joining.
Erin: This was so much fun. Thank you for having me.
Closing
Priya: Absolutely. For those listening, if this conversation inspires you to take control of your money, we really appreciate you spreading the word so other people can find the show. Money just does not get talked about enough, and that's pretty much all we do here. As always, if you have a sec to leave us a review, the, that's the best way to help other people find the show. Otherwise, maybe you have a sec to like, subscribe, follow wherever you're listening. All right, that's it for today. See you next time.
Thanks for listening to The F Word with Priya Malani. If you like what you heard, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, and leave us a review while you're at it. We're approval junkies. Don't forget, you can find a ton of great resources, content, courses, and other freebies at stashwealth.com.
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THE STUFF OUR LAWYERS WANT US TO SAY: Stash Wealth is a Registered Investment Advisor. Content presented is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended to make an offer or solicitation for any specific securities product, service, or strategy. Consult with a qualified investment adviser (that's us) before implementing any strategy. Investing involves risk, including the loss of principal. Past performance does not guarantee future results. There…we said it.
